The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 405 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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I would be shocked if the manager didn't have a say. In fact, I would expect any manager to walk if it was totally out of their hands.

via a committee so that the responsibility doesn't totally weigh down a manager, fine, that makes sense.

And no way would Dean Smith allow anyone else to pick the team, that is ridiculous, he would walk, no doubt at all.
 
We are a poor side going forward without jack!, we would be fighting relegation if you were to take approx. 15 points that I believe JG brought to this team earlier in the season, this is taking into consideration we have improved our defence, near 250m is a big investment without DS being held accountable!

15 points? Where on earth did you get that from?

Let's try this approach. Of the 15 games in 2020, let's suppose we score half the number of goals in every game. And just to make sure we aren't doing Dean any favours, where there's a 0.5 of a goal involved let's round it down. How many points do we lose. SEVEN. So we'd now be on 38 points with 6 games left to play. 13th, 2 places below where we are now. Probably where many thought we'd be lucky to get to at the start of the season.
 
We are a poor side going forward without jack!, we would be fighting relegation if you were to take approx. 15 points that I believe JG brought to this team earlier in the season, this is taking into consideration we have improved our defence, near 250m is a big investment without DS being held accountable!
also add in the Martinez factor. He's earned us a few points this season. Whoevers idea it was to sign him deserves a medal
 
Creases me up when people come up with the 'but for' arguments. If we didn't have Emi, if we didn't have SJ. We have ffs . It's not even an argument

You could apply that to any team in history. If Citeh didn't have Aguero in that last day game, if Argentina didn't have Maradona in 86, if Barcelona didn't have Messi for all those years.

Ridiculous , makes no sense.
 
Creases me up when people come up with the 'but for' arguments. If we didn't have Emi, if we didn't have SJ. We have ffs . It's not even an argument

You could apply that to any team in history. If Citeh didn't have Aguero in that last day game, if Argentina didn't have Maradona in 86, if Barcelona didn't have Messi for all those years.

Ridiculous , makes no sense.

But for me, you'd not be able to make that post.


But... I do agree. The manager brought in those players, or is playing the players.... so it doesn't seem a very strong argument does it?!
 
Creases me up when people come up with the 'but for' arguments. If we didn't have Emi, if we didn't have SJ. We have ffs . It's not even an argument

You could apply that to any team in history. If Citeh didn't have Aguero in that last day game, if Argentina didn't have Maradona in 86, if Barcelona didn't have Messi for all those years.

Ridiculous , makes no sense.
But if we had Louie Barry :throw:
 
It really is amazing to me how many people make a case that our manager isn't good enough by producing "what if" statistics.
"If we didn't have Grealish"
"If we didn't have Martinez"
"If the season started in January"

It's one thing to debate reality, performance, tactics etc. but when the justification for an argument is that we wouldn't be where we are without a bunch of factors that are impossible to measure (because they didn't happen) then I can't see the point in a debate.
So what if Grealish has helped us to 15 points? Enjoy it! But using it as a justification for the manager not being good enough..... Ludicrous. Alex Ferguson once said that Schmeichel was worth five wins a season, and Clough broke the transfer record to get Shilton for the same reasons..... Does that make them bad managers because they "relied on one player for 15 points a season."
Grealish wasn't as effective under Bruce or DiMatteo. He was ignored by Lambert, and Sherwood loved him yet couldn't get him to be consistent. Jack Grealish is an exceptional player, but he's not the sole reason we are where we are. Use that as an argument and you can say he was also solely responsible for us finishing where we did last year...
Every good team has good players, some are even exceptional. Take good players out of a good team and guess what...... the team isn't as good. Doesn't mean the manager is to blame......
 
Creases me up when people come up with the 'but for' arguments. If we didn't have Emi, if we didn't have SJ. We have ffs . It's not even an argument

You could apply that to any team in history. If Citeh didn't have Aguero in that last day game, if Argentina didn't have Maradona in 86, if Barcelona didn't have Messi for all those years.

Ridiculous , makes no sense.
Beat me to it you bar steward!
 
It really is amazing to me how many people make a case that our manager isn't good enough by producing "what if" statistics.
"If we didn't have Grealish"
"If we didn't have Martinez"
"If the season started in January"

It's one thing to debate reality, performance, tactics etc. but when the justification for an argument is that we wouldn't be where we are without a bunch of factors that are impossible to measure (because they didn't happen) then I can't see the point in a debate.
So what if Grealish has helped us to 15 points? Enjoy it! But using it as a justification for the manager not being good enough..... Ludicrous. Alex Ferguson once said that Schmeichel was worth five wins a season, and Clough broke the transfer record to get Shilton for the same reasons..... Does that make them bad managers because they "relied on one player for 15 points a season."
Grealish wasn't as effective under Bruce or DiMatteo. He was ignored by Lambert, and Sherwood loved him yet couldn't get him to be consistent. Jack Grealish is an exceptional player, but he's not the sole reason we are where we are. Use that as an argument and you can say he was also solely responsible for us finishing where we did last year...
Every good team has good players, some are even exceptional. Take good players out of a good team and guess what...... the team isn't as good. Doesn't mean the manager is to blame......

yes show me a successful manager in the PL that doesn't have good players?
 
Creases me up when people come up with the 'but for' arguments. If we didn't have Emi, if we didn't have SJ. We have ffs . It's not even an argument

You could apply that to any team in history. If Citeh didn't have Aguero in that last day game, if Argentina didn't have Maradona in 86, if Barcelona didn't have Messi for all those years.

Ridiculous , makes no sense.
You're being far too polite. It's a fucking moronic argument.
 
Next season will I’m sure be pivotal for Dean. Whatever way you spin it, this season has been an improvement on last and the owners will I’m sure be reasonably happy with overall progress despite the current poor form. More money spent in the summer however will probably mean the owners won’t tolerate another run like we're currently having and those desperate to see him gone will finally get their wish.

A few were, remarkably, calling for his head early in 2019, a few more were raging in Feb 2020. He's managed to silence the doubters each time and put them back in their box for a while, next season he'll need to do it for the whole 9 months. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he does but he could get us into the top six, eventually be sacked for not getting us into the top 4 and those who have always been critical will still probably tell us they were right all along! Personally I can’t wait to return next season with Dean at the helm in front of full crowds home and away, hopefully seeing him proving the doubters wrong...again!

Understand some of the concerns at present but the club is probably in the best place it has been for many a year. I’m still not convinced Dean will be able to take us where the owners eventually want us to be but even if he can’t, I think they’ll continue to support any new appointment in the same way they’ve supported Dean and that should give us all plenty of optimism going forward. That said, Mr Smith isn’t going anywhere just yet!
 
More money spent in the summer however will probably mean the owners won’t tolerate another run like we're currently having and those desperate to see him gone will finally get their wish.
Personally I’m desperate to see him stay and be a success. I like Dean a lot. In fact I’ve been desperate to see all our past managers succeed but few have for various reasons. Dean like Mon before him has the advantage of money being spent and I don’t want to see it being ballsed up again by being the wrong manager at the right time.
 
An alternative view that would have been doing the rounds on this forum had it been around 40 years ago......
At the end of the 1978-79 season, Ron Saunders' team finished 8th for the second year in a row after finishing the 1976-77 season in 4th. 1975-76 was a relegation scrap. Clearly in those two seasons the team was stagnating and completely reliant on Brian Little and Jimmy Rimmer. We'd had some very poor signings like McNaught, a winger called Swain, and a centre forward called Evans. Tommy Craig was perhaps the worst signing ever. Saunders had clearly taken us as far as he could. The club should have replaced him with one of the big names of the time like Malcolm Allison or John Bond....
 
Personally I’m desperate to see him stay and be a success. I like Dean a lot. In fact I’ve been desperate to see all our past managers succeed but few have for various reasons. Dean like Mon before him has the advantage of money being spent and I don’t want to see it being ballsed up again by being the wrong manager at the right time.
Lange is there hopefully to protect that from happening. I'm more concerned with Smiths tactical nouse or lack of and ability to react to situations in game with subs, changes of formation etc.
 
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