The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 396 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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For some reason, instead of enjoying the fact that we do have the best player in the division there are some that seem to use his absence from the team (and an understandable drop in performance as a result) as a means to claim that Dean Smith is utterly useless. If Dean Smith was utterly useless we'd likely be a mid-table (at best) championship club right now.

I don't think he is utterly useless....yet !
 
yep couple of wins and 50 pts or so - and then that's improvement (despite some poor performances) -
might be 10th might be 14th but 50pts or so would certainly show enough over last season.
Another point or two only (or none at all) puts quite a different complexion on the season and it gets a bit marginal. No idea obvs what sort of criteria the owners have for 'improvement'

Eventually that is what it will come down to, what the owners think.
 
At the risk of getting drawn into a protracted debate with Divine like that which we had this time last season, I think the same will apply.
He will be given this season, and ten ish games next season season, and the trigger will be pulled if the start to next season is poor.
They wont want to see this seasons progress thrown away.

10ish? I was actually thinking he deserves the whole season on the basis of the way the defence has been this season, so there is some hope based on that that the next season he will focus on improving the midfield. However, based on our form since 2021 began I am worried and even more so given his post match comments on our "good squad".
 
Facts prove you wrong. Just take a look at the stark contrast in results and performance when we have Jack and when we don't.

My post referred quite specifically to the players that have improved under Dean’s tenure, not the wonder of Jack and how we’re a lesser team without him. And as for ‘facts prove me wrong’, I really haven’t a clue what you’re talking about Divine. Grealish, Konsa, Targett in particular......tell me what ‘facts’ you’ve obviously got to prove that they haven’t become better players over the past two years? Haven’t Konsa and Targett have been superb all season with Jack in the team and without him? And how come Jack has come on in leaps and bounds over the past two years if he's being coached so poorly and when he’s playing and training with such a useless bunch of players around him?
 
It's all about next season for me, especially if we spend a bit more in the summer.

This season is done, it's been a bizarre season anyway all things considered. I'm sure the owners didn't buy the club to finish mid-table every season and I'd imagine Europe is the minimum expectation for next season.

I don't see why Deano would be relieved of his duties before then. The team still needs to be improved first.

Yup, as I've said before. The axe above DS's head rises when we have a bench he fully trusts because then we know the answer to the stubborn changes question and proper rotation for rest and form.

Again, I'd like to have seen Davis far more as the hold option up top even without a goal threat BUT I more than appreciate half the forum has put me back on ignore after reading that sentence and even then, I can only really say when Davis has been brought on, he's had a positive impact maybe 3 times?

So that move isn't a guaranteed success anyway.
 
Especially, as you say, if sirden says he was at a game, he was at a game and I know full well, having been to away games with him, he doesn't get distracted.

To be fair, when he is with me he does get distracted by my insightful comments about the game and also of course my great wit .
 
Deano will get criticism for getting it wrong which he has done lately, and he’ll get praise when he gets it right like the changes against Fulham.

I think it’s normal for fans to get frustrated at recent performances, we started off as one of the best teams in Europe and we were playing like one as well, I didn’t dream it, we looked bloody threatening every time we had the ball, 20-25 shots per game, we looked unstoppable, whatever Deano was doing it was working, the form from the end of last season carried straight through, even in the friendlies beating Arsenal and Man Utd.
Deservedly beat Liverpool who were lucky it wasn’t double figures, Smashed Arsenal 3-0 away, hard fought draw against Chelsea and Leicester, and the Manchester teams both got very lucky and cheated their way to wins.

I remember the old heads on here saying this form will drop and we’re playing well above our level, I didn’t quite believe it myself, We were on fire, how could we play this well consistently game after game and for us to drop back to relegation form after the new year with an easy run, and still not get out of that bad patch with the hardest run you could Imagine with 9 games to go (now 8 games)

Still have the 3rd best defence in the league, which in itself is a massive achievement for a team who were sinking goals left right and centre last season.

Konsa has the most blocks in the league, Martinez will equal Friedel’s record with one more clean sheet, Mings an England international and with the cockups he is big enough and man enough to pick himself up and sort himself out coming out the other end as a better experienced player for it, he’s still learning his game in the Premiership really, a late bloomer, Targett has gone from zero to hero this season, probably the most improved player and for me he’s got to be on the verge of a call up himself alongside Cash and Konsa.

So massive massive credit for Deano for getting that right and sorting us out defensively.
I’m sure he’s scratching his head himself, how we can play this badly after getting it so right to start with, and I’ve been saying he’s been making really poor choices in terms of making a change on the bench, and not really giving any other formation or tactic a go, he seems really stubborn in that department.

I really hope he’s just giving smoke in the media with transfers this summer, keeping fringe players such as Trezeguet (now injured), Traore and Al Ghazi a lift that they’re still well apart of the plans and it’s upto them to play themselves into form and keep the shirt.

Although we’ve got a recruitment team for a reason, Lange will be fully aware himself in what we need, with a decent transfer window this summer, with better players on the bench to actually change the game rather than swap players for like for like, I’m sure Deano will use the bench more and hopefully we’ll have a couple new faces in the starting 11 too.
 
Deano will get criticism for getting it wrong which he has done lately, and he’ll get praise when he gets it right like the changes against Fulham.

I think it’s normal for fans to get frustrated at recent performances, we started off as one of the best teams in Europe and we were playing like one as well, I didn’t dream it, we looked bloody threatening every time we had the ball, 20-25 shots per game, we looked unstoppable, whatever Deano was doing it was working, the form from the end of last season carried straight through, even in the friendlies beating Arsenal and Man Utd.
Deservedly beat Liverpool who were lucky it wasn’t double figures, Smashed Arsenal 3-0 away, hard fought draw against Chelsea and Leicester, and the Manchester teams both got very lucky and cheated their way to wins.

I remember the old heads on here saying this form will drop and we’re playing well above our level, I didn’t quite believe it myself, We were on fire, how could we play this well consistently game after game and for us to drop back to relegation form after the new year with an easy run, and still not get out of that bad patch with the hardest run you could Imagine with 9 games to go (now 8 games)

Still have the 3rd best defence in the league, which in itself is a massive achievement for a team who were sinking goals left right and centre last season.

Konsa has the most blocks in the league, Martinez will equal Friedel’s record with one more clean sheet, Mings an England international and with the cockups he is big enough and man enough to pick himself up and sort himself out coming out the other end as a better experienced player for it, he’s still learning his game in the Premiership really, a late bloomer, Targett has gone from zero to hero this season, probably the most improved player and for me he’s got to be on the verge of a call up himself alongside Cash and Konsa.

So massive massive credit for Deano for getting that right and sorting us out defensively.
I’m sure he’s scratching his head himself, how we can play this badly after getting it so right to start with, and I’ve been saying he’s been making really poor choices in terms of making a change on the bench, and not really giving any other formation or tactic a go, he seems really stubborn in that department.

I really hope he’s just giving smoke in the media with transfers this summer, keeping fringe players such as Trezeguet (now injured), Traore and Al Ghazi a lift that they’re still well apart of the plans and it’s upto them to play themselves into form and keep the shirt.

Although we’ve got a recruitment team for a reason, Lange will be fully aware himself in what we need, with a decent transfer window this summer, with better players on the bench to actually change the game rather than swap players for like for like, I’m sure Deano will use the bench more and hopefully a few new faces in the first team too.
A very measured post there mate. Refreshing to read. All about balance, perspective and an appreciation of the bigger picture.
 
Again, I'd like to have seen Davis far more as the hold option up top even without a goal threat BUT I more than appreciate half the forum has put me back on ignore after reading that sentence and even then, I can only really say when Davis has been brought on, he's had a positive impact maybe 3 times?

So that move isn't a guaranteed success anyway.

Yeah, Davis is one that does great things in a cameo and then flatters to deceive when next given a chance, we've seen it before. A bit like Trez.

None of the things he does are a guaranteed success with what he has to choose from. I'm sure there a plenty of variables to be considered with each decision too.

My main criticism now, as with most, is his persistence with Barkley, even from the bench.
 
Yeah, Davis is one that does great things in a cameo and then flatters to deceive when next given a chance, we've seen it before. A bit like Trez.

None of the things he does are a guaranteed success with what he has to choose from. I'm sure there a plenty of variables to be considered with each decision too.

My main criticism now, as with most, is his persistence with Barkley, even from the bench.

But in fairness, he's ignored Barkley completely for a few games and psychologically I see every sense in giving him the Liverpool shot - again granted, we'd have all called it ahead of the game 'it won't work Dean' and after such an impact, I think Davis would've been up for this - but no guarantee in itself.

It's the unknown...maybe Ross was slightly livelier in training, said the right things again that tempted DS to give him a second shot.

The real disappointment after that is if he gets a third shot, but I hope DS isn't that dumb. If Barkley wants a third shot now, he pays his loan fee and refunds his wages since January- then I'd give him 5 minutes. I'm not heartless.
 
But in fairness, he's ignored Barkley completely for a few games and psychologically I see every sense in giving him the Liverpool shot - again granted, we'd have all called it ahead of the game 'it won't work Dean' and after such an impact, I think Davis would've been up for this - but no guarantee in itself.

It's the unknown...maybe Ross was slightly livelier in training, said the right things again that tempted DS to give him a second shot.

The real disappointment after that is if he gets a third shot, but I hope DS isn't that dumb. If Barkley wants a third shot now, he pays his loan fee and refunds his wages since January- then I'd give him 5 minutes. I'm not heartless.
It will be very interesting to see what happens when Grealish gets back. Will he play Barkley again because he'll think they'll link up?
 
A very measured post there mate. Refreshing to read. All about balance, perspective and an appreciation of the bigger picture.
I agree with you JPA, the post is well constructed and balanced. There is just one niggle that I had with JPA's assessment though and that is Ross Barkley. He has been a massive disappointment following a good start and has regressed into the kind of attitude and approach that he showed at Everton and Chelsea. We can all see that he has become a liability and surely DS can see it also, so why persist with having him around the squad and on the pitch?
 
It will be very interesting to see what happens when Grealish gets back. Will he play Barkley again because he'll think they'll link up?

The only time they'll link up is in the pub, need to keep players like him away from Jack.
The club has dropped a boo boo , with another Chelsea player, there is a reason they don't get a look in at Chelsea and sadly we've found out why. He's a lazy selfish player
 
The only time they'll link up is in the pub, need to keep players like him away from Jack.
The club has dropped a boo boo , with another Chelsea player, there is a reason they don't get a look in at Chelsea and sadly we've found out why. He's a lazy selfish player

Yep...never overly impressed with Barclay whilst he was at Chelsea but Dean and co (as many of us were hoping) perhaps thought they could rejuvenate him with the lure of a developing squad, playing alongside Jack,euros looming etc etc We had a flicker early season but that was it. Injury probably didn’t help but he’s been a major disappointment. His casual jogging round the park on Saturday and usual poor decision making summed it up really. Only consolation I suppose is that we didn’t waste £40m!
 
Just on theme about liking or disliking (even hating) Smith, I sort of come back to the bigger picture with it on him.

Let me start by saying I think he has a bit to learn if not more than a bit, I think that’ll come with experience of poor decisions ending with poor results, along with having better players to make better decisions over time. He can send me potty during games with some of his decisions which I’ll never understand, except that is just the stubborn nature of a football manager I’ve come to accept.

I actually felt it was largely down to Smith’s inexperience we so nearly got relegated, I didn’t see it quite in the triumphant way many did as we shouldn’t be celebrating escaping relegation like a small town team. But second chances, and we’ve overperformed this season so no complaints to me. The summer is massive...

The perspective part - how many managers have we disliked or even hated down the years? I can’t think of many managers who has left on good terms with us in terms of reputation, Big Ron and John Gregory perhaps in my lifetime. All of the others have underperformed eventually, and even the ones where we had a bit of a good time in DOL (arguably) and MON ended with on very bad terms. I don’t think there’s one manager I would take back or I felt left prematurely put it that way.

Smith is one of us, the image of him and Jack on the back of the North Stand as two Villa fans, taking Villa back to where we should be is something that we should be enjoying albeit with the allowable in game over reactions that many of us have in our posting armoury including me.

I step back a bit after games these days as I’ve got older, and when you have a bad result as we did on the weekend, you assess the opposition and how we played overall - which wasn’t by any means awful just perhaps sloppy - and actually we are in a very good place with momentum taking us forward.
 
Dean has yet to fail as a manager he has a perfect progressive CV which very few managers can say he's nobodies cast off and frustrating as he can be he may just be the man that turns into Ron Saunders he may not but he has all the tools to do it with or he will do and this summers recruitment will be critical to our moving forwards
 
10ish? I was actually thinking he deserves the whole season on the basis of the way the defence has been this season, so there is some hope based on that that the next season he will focus on improving the midfield. However, based on our form since 2021 began I am worried and even more so given his post match comments on our "good squad".
The midfield has to be his focus, it is the key to everything.
Get that sorted and you are on your way. At the moment some of our games are like school kids attack and defence games in the playground.
Liverpool are no great shakes this season, but they walked through us time after time on Saturday, and we were, like we have been in so many games lately getting in last ditch headers and block tackles.
That is not a game plan. Our defensive midfield is non existent and equally going forward we have lost all the cohesion and fluidity we had early on in the season.
Cant think he really believes we have a good squad, he will have his concerns, that comment was just for the cameras.
 
I realise most on here will know I’m unhappy with Smith’s choices & style since the turn of the year, from the team’s lacklustre performances (right from the get go in some matches) and his inability to sort that out, his unbelievable substitutions which have left most on here pulling at their hair,
His constant face pulling when he’s talking to the other 3 (and even then fuck all changes) even when he does chance upon a decent setup he seems to forget about it the next game.

I’m also unsure what KD needs to do to get a chance, I’m not suggesting he is our saviour by any means but the lad deserves better than he’s been given, I also think that Martinez has kept Smith in his job, the only position that Smith can’t fuck up funnily enough.

The other thing I’d like to say is, most of my frustration is aimed at his inability to get the team playing decent entertaining football, I realise our most entertaining player is out, but even when SJ was in the squad things were poor, and if the end position/current position (for most on here it seems) is the be all and end all, then I see no reason to watch the games, you may as well tune in at the end of 9 months.

Of course this is all irrelevant because it’s our owner’s mindset that will in the end determine Smith’s future.
 
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