Here we go! | Page 233 | Vital Football

Here we go!

So this is the fault of the people that participated in a democratic vote? It's these people that 'enabled' this? It's not the fault of the people taking to the streets with petrol bombs?

What should've happened? Is the UK and its citizens supposed to be held to ransom and not vote the 'wrong way'?
It's actually the fault of the politicians who couldn't make it work so they went ahead anyway in spite of the warnings.
 
Fuck em
They didnt even want to live in Britain
They turned their backs on us
Selfish bastards now their actions are hitting them...
Maybe they can stay in a refugee camp?

Bremoaners 😂😂😂

Its ok Joe ..give it 50 years and it'll be all right for ya 😂😂😂😂

 
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What is weird is if by Jan 2020 U.K. unemployment was at a record low, how do these Brexit job losses work?
That was just the beginning. Preparing for the worst - which pretty much happened. The other one is current tracking. Quite the list!
 
"A few days ago, the IMF, global lender of last resort, and their current head, Kristalina Georgieva, called on governments to close the income gap between the richest and poorest that has worsened during the Covid pandemic, by spending more and taxing wealthy households.

Yesterday, the richest person in the world, Amazon founder, Jeff Bezos said he supported the Biden administration’s plan to increase corporate taxes.

Chancellor, Rishi Sunak said in his recent budget that he intends to raise the corporation tax rate from its current 19% to 25% in April 2023, (whether or not that actually happens is open to debate).

Sir Keir Starmer originally said he would not back corporation tax hikes, and then, balancing on the fence, said he might support it in the longer-term. There is also ongoing confusion over whether he wants a wealth tax.

Where are the radical Socialist economic policies the country needs? Will we ever tackle the obscene and ever-growing wealth gap? "
 

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"A few days ago, the IMF, global lender of last resort, and their current head, Kristalina Georgieva, called on governments to close the income gap between the richest and poorest that has worsened during the Covid pandemic, by spending more and taxing wealthy households.

Yesterday, the richest person in the world, Amazon founder, Jeff Bezos said he supported the Biden administration’s plan to increase corporate taxes.

Chancellor, Rishi Sunak said in his recent budget that he intends to raise the corporation tax rate from its current 19% to 25% in April 2023, (whether or not that actually happens is open to debate).

Sir Keir Starmer originally said he would not back corporation tax hikes, and then, balancing on the fence, said he might support it in the longer-term. There is also ongoing confusion over whether he wants a wealth tax.

Where are the radical Socialist economic policies the country needs? Will we ever tackle the obscene and ever-growing wealth gap? "
Problem is, the country doesn't want radical socialist policies or they would have voted for them.

Unless you accept that it was Corbyn who was the problem in 2019?
 
Problem is, the country doesn't want radical socialist policies or they would have voted for them.

Unless you accept that it was Corbyn who was the problem in 2019?

"The fundamental radical shift that Labour had taken under Corbyn is the correct one"
Kier Starmer - campaigning for the Labour leadership....

That was just a lie. He'd have been better off not bothering. He didn't even need to lie like that to win the leadership.
 
So this is the fault of the people that participated in a democratic vote? It's these people that 'enabled' this? It's not the fault of the people taking to the streets with petrol bombs?

What should've happened? Is the UK and its citizens supposed to be held to ransom and not vote the 'wrong way'?
Well you can look at it both ways tbh.

1: Of course its the fault of the people with petrol bombs
2: Those who voted for Brexit despite this being an obvious consequence either believed the lie that this wouldn't happen or didn't give a shit about Ireland because its far away.

Both can be true. When actions have predictable consequences then someone has to take responsibility for that.
 
Well you can look at it both ways tbh.

1: Of course its the fault of the people with petrol bombs
2: Those who voted for Brexit despite this being an obvious consequence either believed the lie that this wouldn't happen or didn't give a shit about Ireland because its far away.

Both can be true. When actions have predictable consequences then someone has to take responsibility for that.
I am going to take this to task here.

The British people as a whole, by which I mean specifically the 84% of them who live in England, absolutely, categorically do not give a toss about Northern Ireland or anything that happens there. As far as they are concerned, it's across the sea, it's another country and its far, far more trouble than it has ever been worth. And from an English perspective, that's not an inaccurate assessment at all. Any United Ireland referendum amongst the English would likely jettison NI by a landslide I imagine.

I didn't vote remain with the NI protocols in mind and I think most people would be lying if they said they did.

Whilst this violence is a predictable consequence of Brexit, we can hardly blame people who don't give a shit about Ireland and know absolutely nothing about what happens there for not for seeing this and changing their vote accordingly. Even I don't know enough to exactly pin point why this is happening; largely because I feel largely the same as the English population at large about NI news.

If you want to apportion blame, it belongs with the likes of Gove, Davis, Raab, Patel and Johnson who knew (or at least should have known) exactly what the likely consequences would be, but for their own gain pretended otherwise.
 
I am going to take this to task here.

The British people as a whole, by which I mean specifically the 84% of them who live in England, absolutely, categorically do not give a toss about Northern Ireland or anything that happens there. As far as they are concerned, it's across the sea, it's another country and its far, far more trouble than it has ever been worth. And from an English perspective, that's not an inaccurate assessment at all. Any United Ireland referendum amongst the English would likely jettison NI by a landslide I imagine.

I didn't vote remain with the NI protocols in mind and I think most people would be lying if they said they did.

Whilst this violence is a predictable consequence of Brexit, we can hardly blame people who don't give a shit about Ireland and know absolutely nothing about what happens there for not for seeing this and changing their vote accordingly. Even I don't know enough to exactly pin point why this is happening; largely because I feel largely the same as the English population at large about NI news.

If you want to apportion blame, it belongs with the likes of Gove, Davis, Raab, Patel and Johnson who knew (or at least should have known) exactly what the likely consequences would be, but for their own gain pretended otherwise.

This is pretty spot on.
 
I am going to take this to task here.

The British people as a whole, by which I mean specifically the 84% of them who live in England, absolutely, categorically do not give a toss about Northern Ireland or anything that happens there. As far as they are concerned, it's across the sea, it's another country and its far, far more trouble than it has ever been worth. And from an English perspective, that's not an inaccurate assessment at all. Any United Ireland referendum amongst the English would likely jettison NI by a landslide I imagine.

I didn't vote remain with the NI protocols in mind and I think most people would be lying if they said they did.

Whilst this violence is a predictable consequence of Brexit, we can hardly blame people who don't give a shit about Ireland and know absolutely nothing about what happens there for not for seeing this and changing their vote accordingly. Even I don't know enough to exactly pin point why this is happening; largely because I feel largely the same as the English population at large about NI news.

If you want to apportion blame, it belongs with the likes of Gove, Davis, Raab, Patel and Johnson who knew (or at least should have known) exactly what the likely consequences would be, but for their own gain pretended otherwise.

I blame Cromwell (Oliver, not Thomas)
 
I am going to take this to task here.

The British people as a whole, by which I mean specifically the 84% of them who live in England, absolutely, categorically do not give a toss about Northern Ireland or anything that happens there. As far as they are concerned, it's across the sea, it's another country and its far, far more trouble than it has ever been worth. And from an English perspective, that's not an inaccurate assessment at all. Any United Ireland referendum amongst the English would likely jettison NI by a landslide I imagine.

I didn't vote remain with the NI protocols in mind and I think most people would be lying if they said they did.

Whilst this violence is a predictable consequence of Brexit, we can hardly blame people who don't give a shit about Ireland and know absolutely nothing about what happens there for not for seeing this and changing their vote accordingly. Even I don't know enough to exactly pin point why this is happening; largely because I feel largely the same as the English population at large about NI news.

If you want to apportion blame, it belongs with the likes of Gove, Davis, Raab, Patel and Johnson who knew (or at least should have known) exactly what the likely consequences would be, but for their own gain pretended otherwise.

I think being aware of the consequences of our votes is pretty fundamental to a functioning democracy.
Blaming people is not really what I'm after, and indeed if you read my post my main point is the same as yours... most people didn't give a shit about the effects of their vote on Ireland.
Just the same as most people didn't give a shit about the effects of their vote on the seafood exporting industry, or all the other people that have been dragged into shit because of it.
You can't expect people to give a shit about anyone else in these matters, but that idea still doesn't divorce the act of brexiting from the consequences of Brexit.
When I said someone has to take responsibility, I agree that the politicians who engineered this are the ones primarily responsible, but the people who would still class those politicians as trying to do the right thing need to take a look at what's happening in Ireland and remind themselves of what they were told by Gove etc. before Brexit happened.

What I was most perturbed about by JC21's post is this idea that the violence in Ireland was caused only by individuals with petrol bombs, as if there isn't a whole separate chain of cause and effect where the cause is Brexit and the effect is this violence.
Both can be true simultaneously.
 
Problem is, the country doesn't want radical socialist policies or they would have voted for them.

Unless you accept that it was Corbyn who was the problem in 2019?


What radical policies are you talking about?
You said you liked both of the previous manifestos, no?
 
I see the blame game has started for the Riots and the finger is being pointed at Sinn Fein

Not long now and the IRA will be back in force

I would suggest the finger be pointed at Brexiters
 
I think being aware of the consequences of our votes is pretty fundamental to a functioning democracy.
Blaming people is not really what I'm after, and indeed if you read my post my main point is the same as yours... most people didn't give a shit about the effects of their vote on Ireland.
Just the same as most people didn't give a shit about the effects of their vote on the seafood exporting industry, or all the other people that have been dragged into shit because of it.
You can't expect people to give a shit about anyone else in these matters, but that idea still doesn't divorce the act of brexiting from the consequences of Brexit.
When I said someone has to take responsibility, I agree that the politicians who engineered this are the ones primarily responsible, but the people who would still class those politicians as trying to do the right thing need to take a look at what's happening in Ireland and remind themselves of what they were told by Gove etc. before Brexit happened.

What I was most perturbed about by JC21's post is this idea that the violence in Ireland was caused only by individuals with petrol bombs, as if there isn't a whole separate chain of cause and effect where the cause is Brexit and the effect is this violence.
Both can be true simultaneously.
Ultimately though, JC21 is right; it is caused by individuals with petrol bombs. We have had peace for nearly 25 years; but the desire to fight as part of a tribe is so ingrained in some that they have never accepted that. Whether the consequences of brexit have actually ignited people (someone more knowledgeable than me would have to tell me how) or has merely provided an excuse for people already committed to violence to do more, is surely open to debate.

The consequences of a vote either way in 2016 were far too vast and unpredictable for even the experts to understand, let alone a member of the public

We were told we should vote leave to support our fishermen. Full disclosure; I didn't give a shit about fishermen, and I voted remain in full cogniscence of that. I didn't give a shit about Mr Farage's notion of sovereignty either. Our voted were as much about what we didn't give a shit about as what we did; leave voters didn't give two figs for my desire to be allowed to live and work abroad.

There is no way we can pin northern Ireland on Brexit voters; it was for the politicians to sort out 100%. That Johnson didn't give a shit about NI in his dealmaking (in contrast to May) was one of the reasons he was able to get his risible deal