The Plastic Crisis/Environment Thread | Page 15 | Vital Football

The Plastic Crisis/Environment Thread

That veg starch thing is quite new isn't it. I'd heard of it, but never actually seen any.

The sooner that replaces the poly/foamy shit the better. This is where the Gov could make a quick win, the concept of the veg has been proven, so make it law that any other packaging is now illegal.
 
That veg starch thing is quite new isn't it. I'd heard of it, but never actually seen any.

The sooner that replaces the poly/foamy shit the better. This is where the Gov could make a quick win, the concept of the veg has been proven, so make it law that any other packaging is now illegal.

That's the whole thing, isn't it. Banning plastic straws and having people bring their own bags to Tescos is fine but it won't have any significant impact on climate change.

It needs to be done through big government regulation and large scale investments in renewable energy, reshaping cities, alternative transport etc.
 
Small stuff to make people feel good and like they are doing their bit (and yes in time it will have an effect, no denying that), but the real stuff has to be Gov led as that's bigger impact and also more immediate impact.
 
Some say it is consumer led, but short of boycotting half the things you buy, do you really have a choice? I know some say yes, but for me, I want to shop at somewhere like Aldi, there aren't local greengrocer etc like there used to be, and I want to be as green as possible. Do I think I can make an impact on my own if I boycott a 3 pack of mixed peppers because they are in the wrong bags? Sadly not. Morally maybe, but .. well, I want the peppers for the goodness they bring!

Should be shop, manufacturer led nudged (at the very least) by Government... and if nudges don't work, law.
 
Consumers can only do so much. As you say, short of not buying something because it has oodles of plastic wrapping, what can you really do?

Especially for Covid (and let's face it normal life anyway) you can't really shop around 4 supermarkets to get a full shop in an effort to minimise the plastic, or miles travelled etc etc.

So it has to be blanket legislation in the other direction in effect, to ensure they provide what consumers say they prefer but currently have no real choice over - short of going without.
 
Just watched Sky news climate article re carbon emmisions.
Someone on here some month ago when I stated the idea of our output coming down was insignificant when you see the damage China and India are doing, stated that China are making massive strides to reduce their carbon footprint.
Well Sky have just shown the latest figure over, I think the last twenty years, UK down by 40% and other western European countries at varying levels down by 24%.
America, Canada and a few others were all up over that period, but China and India were massively up over that time, obviously dont give a damn.
Their increase makes our decrease a complete waste of time in the grand scheme of things.
Our contribution is miniscule, and yes I get the air quality thing, but nothing the UK does will save the planet.
 
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Just watched Sky news climate article re carbon emmisions.
Someone on here some month ago when I stated the idea of our output coming down was insignificant when you see the damage China and India are doing, stated that China are making massive strides to reduce their carbon footprint.
Well Sky have just shown the latest figure over, I think the last twenty years, UK down by 40% and other western European countries at varying levels down by 24%.
America, Canada and a few others were all up over that period, but China and India were massively up over that time, obviously dont give a damn.
Their increase makes our decrease a complete waste of time in the grand scheme of things.
Our contribution is miniscule, and yes I get the air quality thing, but nothing the UK does will save the planet.
Countries like China, India are obviously well behind the curve. These are still developing countries and don’t have fully completed infrastructure as of yet so no surprise they are reliant on more simplistic fossil fuel and are going in the wrong direction on this. Also China and India are on huge trends of economic growth so of course they will be consuming much, much more energy than they were before, if the economy is five times as large as it was 20 years ago (based on compounding of 9% average growth) then the energy required is going to increase by roughly as much.

I think if the west can provide a good example then these countries will eventually follow suit especially when their growth starts to mature and they start to look at more long term efficient and sustainable practices. Increased Investor interest in China should also bring about better corporate practices - I was just looking at two Emerging Market ESG (environmental, social, governance) specialised investment funds at work today - ESG is a growing trend across the investment industry and Chinese/Asian companies want western capital and will be forced to adopt more of these policies to be seen as mainstream investments.

The real scandal is why are countries like the US and Canada not on the same trajectory as us. They have no reason to not be transitioning to cleaner alternatives like we have over here and in Northern Europe. Both have a vested interest due to oil and gas industries in their region is the only rationale.
 
Their increase makes our decrease a complete waste of time in the grand scheme of things.
Our contribution is miniscule, and yes I get the air quality thing, but nothing the UK does will save the planet.

Not really. The air quality 'thing' costs thousands of lives and countless asthma attacks and other respiratory issues.

But also, even if it ends up to be ultimately futile, we can't preach what we don't practice. If countries like ours set the example - and I doubt our veracity with this as we are looking at opening a coal mine and are ploughing through ancient (over 500 year old) forests for a train to London - then others might catch on and follow.

I do suspect mankind is far too stupid though and hope, if that is the case, the planet finds a way to kick us off it.
 
The real scandal is why are countries like the US and Canada not on the same trajectory as us. .

No idea on Canada, but the answer in the US is Trump the climate change deniar.

Now he has been replaced, I would expect them to surge forward.
 
Countries like China, India are obviously well behind the curve. These are still developing countries and don’t have fully completed infrastructure as of yet so no surprise they are reliant on more simplistic fossil fuel and are going in the wrong direction on this. Also China and India are on huge trends of economic growth so of course they will be consuming much, much more energy than they were before, if the economy is five times as large as it was 20 years ago (based on compounding of 9% average growth) then the energy required is going to increase by roughly as much.

I think if the west can provide a good example then these countries will eventually follow suit especially when their growth starts to mature and they start to look at more long term efficient and sustainable practices. Increased Investor interest in China should also bring about better corporate practices - I was just looking at two Emerging Market ESG (environmental, social, governance) specialised investment funds at work today - ESG is a growing trend across the investment industry and Chinese/Asian companies want western capital and will be forced to adopt more of these policies to be seen as mainstream investments.

The real scandal is why are countries like the US and Canada not on the same trajectory as us. They have no reason to not be transitioning to cleaner alternatives like we have over here and in Northern Europe. Both have a vested interest due to oil and gas industries in their region is the only rationale.
Just read that China have sanctioned the building of new coal powered power stations that will push out an additional 247GW, whilst the rest of the world, mostly western Europe and Scandanavia
have reduced by 17.2GW.
China s newly sanctioned power stations, would meet all of Germany s
power need on their own.
It appears that the US were on an upward curve even before Trump took office, so as you say the omens are not good in that part of the world.
 
No idea on Canada, but the answer in the US is Trump the climate change deniar.

Now he has been replaced, I would expect them to surge forward.
Not so sure about the surge forward, there are so many very poweful vested interest groups in North America.
 
Not really. The air quality 'thing' costs thousands of lives and countless asthma attacks and other respiratory issues.

But also, even if it ends up to be ultimately futile, we can't preach what we don't practice. If countries like ours set the example - and I doubt our veracity with this as we are looking at opening a coal mine and are ploughing through ancient (over 500 year old) forests for a train to London - then others might catch on and follow.

I do suspect mankind is far too stupid though and hope, if that is the case, the planet finds a way to kick us off it.
Singing off the same hymn sheet JF, I cant believe the coal mine, and the HS2 issue is a scandal.
Re HS2 I have never spoken to anyone regardless of political persuasion that agrees with it.
 
I was just looking at two Emerging Market ESG (environmental, social, governance) specialised investment funds at work today - ESG is a growing trend across the investment industry and Chinese/Asian companies want western capital and will be forced to adopt more of these policies to be seen as mainstream investments.
.

ESG marketing does seem quite the thing - do any/many Chinese firms fit the bill ?
 
Just watched Sky news climate article re carbon emmisions.
Someone on here some month ago when I stated the idea of our output coming down was insignificant when you see the damage China and India are doing, stated that China are making massive strides to reduce their carbon footprint.
Well Sky have just shown the latest figure over, I think the last twenty years, UK down by 40% and other western European countries at varying levels down by 24%.
America, Canada and a few others were all up over that period, but China and India were massively up over that time, obviously dont give a damn.
Their increase makes our decrease a complete waste of time in the grand scheme of things.
Our contribution is miniscule, and yes I get the air quality thing, but nothing the UK does will save the planet.

Might have been me. There's been major investment in nuclear power to move away from coal etc, but with the build development etc there's always a lag so I'm not surprised they aren't yet seeing the benefits of it as they aren't at the end of the transition.
 
Might have been me. There's been major investment in nuclear power to move away from coal etc, but with the build development etc there's always a lag so I'm not surprised they aren't yet seeing the benefits of it as they aren't at the end of the transition.
It wasnt you Mike.
Chinas relationship with the rest of the world has never been an easy one whatever the subject. Going back to the days of Mao and way before then it has been a thorn in the side of the west.
It has opened up some, but when push comes to shove its the same old China.
 
Based on what I’ve seen first hand on how the Chinese treat animals - which is decades if not centuries behind how the western world treats animals - then god help us on the climate.

It’s not PC to write what I think, but it’s completely backward seeing monkeys on chains being walked around the street and burning and burying infected pigs alive.
 
It wasnt you Mike.
Chinas relationship with the rest of the world has never been an easy one whatever the subject. Going back to the days of Mao and way before then it has been a thorn in the side of the west.
It has opened up some, but when push comes to shove its the same old China.

I've said it in response to someone recently lol

Yes, definitely a difficult, oppressive and in many ways highly paranoid country for sure. Certainly no quick fix either, but on a green front (at least from what I've read) we should start seeing tangible progress on that front by 2030. Whether or not it's too late is the next question.
 
Countries like China, India are obviously well behind the curve. These are still developing countries and don’t have fully completed infrastructure as of yet so no surprise they are reliant on more simplistic fossil fuel and are going in the wrong direction on this. Also China and India are on huge trends of economic growth so of course they will be consuming much, much more energy than they were before, if the economy is five times as large as it was 20 years ago (based on compounding of 9% average growth) then the energy required is going to increase by roughly as much.

I think if the west can provide a good example then these countries will eventually follow suit especially when their growth starts to mature and they start to look at more long term efficient and sustainable practices. Increased Investor interest in China should also bring about better corporate practices - I was just looking at two Emerging Market ESG (environmental, social, governance) specialised investment funds at work today - ESG is a growing trend across the investment industry and Chinese/Asian companies want western capital and will be forced to adopt more of these policies to be seen as mainstream investments.

The real scandal is why are countries like the US and Canada not on the same trajectory as us. They have no reason to not be transitioning to cleaner alternatives like we have over here and in Northern Europe. Both have a vested interest due to oil and gas industries in their region is the only rationale.

The US system is all private so power companies etc always look for the lowest cost option for right now. Joey B might start forcing things in the right direction.
 
Just read that China have sanctioned the building of new coal powered power stations that will push out an additional 247GW, whilst the rest of the world, mostly western Europe and Scandanavia
have reduced by 17.2GW.
China s newly sanctioned power stations, would meet all of Germany s
power need on their own.
It appears that the US were on an upward curve even before Trump took office, so as you say the omens are not good in that part of the world.

I read a while ago that they had cancelled 50 coal powered stations to make renewable energy ones instead.