Coronavirus vaccine | Page 57 | Vital Football

Coronavirus vaccine

Death Certificates have always been a bit bizarre. My old man had terminal cancer. His death certificate stated "pneumonia". I remember asking at the time and was told technically that's what he died of.

I know why we pay so much attention to the numbers who have died but there will always be anomalies. Nobby's example is absolutely correct I believe the person hit by a bus would be counted as a COVID stat. The person who died months after (due to COVID) wouldn't.

It would be better if we standardised across the world but however you count the UK deaths they are very, very high and there must be lessons learnt.
Spot on, however my post was a little tongue in cheek and if our old mate Wayne was here, he'd point to the "excess deaths" figure which I think stands at around 90k on the the 5 year average.
Does this mean that, realistically, 90k have died OF covid?
 
Spot on, however my post was a little tongue in cheek and if our old mate Wayne was here, he'd point to the "excess deaths" figure which I think stands at around 90k on the the 5 year average.
Does this mean that, realistically, 90k have died OF covid?
Time will tell Nobby.
Maybe so, but to give it proper context, it would need to be looked at over a ten year average.
It’s undeniable that some who died with covid were on their last legs anyway and equally probable that some were being kept alive by medical science with a very poor quality of life.
It’s curious that the 2020 flu deaths were over 20,000 down on the 2019 figure.
As I say, it will all come out in the wash.
Of course what doesn’t help is that most countries are recording things differently.
 
Spot on, however my post was a little tongue in cheek and if our old mate Wayne was here, he'd point to the "excess deaths" figure which I think stands at around 90k on the the 5 year average.
Does this mean that, realistically, 90k have died OF covid?

No, I would imagine that hardly anyone has died OF Covid. Covid is putting pressure on people's bodies, and is bringing forward the death of frail and sick people. The effects on the young and fit are well documented.

There are outliers to this - frail and sick that have survived, and fit and healthy that have died. Covid is obviously a "thing", but you can't just count "excess deaths" either. There are people dying because they haven't sought medical attention, or haven't been able to get required medical treatment. Alcohol deaths have gone up, and I would guess suicide has too. The flip side of that is that some people have also been looking after themselves better, and motor deaths will decrease as there is less driving. Air quality will also have improved.

Covid is different to AIDS for example, which WAS killing healthy people.

My guess is that death rates will remain higher for a couple of years due to other medical issues that were affected by lack of medical availability. They will then drop to under the average, as the "business as usual" deaths in 5 years time won't include a portion of people that "should" be dying then, but died in 2020.
 
No, I would imagine that hardly anyone has died OF Covid. Covid is putting pressure on people's bodies, and is bringing forward the death of frail and sick people. The effects on the young and fit are well documented.

There are outliers to this - frail and sick that have survived, and fit and healthy that have died. Covid is obviously a "thing", but you can't just count "excess deaths" either. There are people dying because they haven't sought medical attention, or haven't been able to get required medical treatment. Alcohol deaths have gone up, and I would guess suicide has too. The flip side of that is that some people have also been looking after themselves better, and motor deaths will decrease as there is less driving. Air quality will also have improved.

Covid is different to AIDS for example, which WAS killing healthy people.

My guess is that death rates will remain higher for a couple of years due to other medical issues that were affected by lack of medical availability. They will then drop to under the average, as the "business as usual" deaths in 5 years time won't include a portion of people that "should" be dying then, but died in 2020.


Good post that. I agree with lots of it.
 
An endless debate with endless complications. HIV may have killed healthy people but its transmission was quickened by groups and whole populations with allready compromised immunity systems, poverty, living conditions and availability of health care, a familiar tale. It's never simple but how people live is always a big factor. One of the horror factors with HIV was that it appeared to target the young.

Alcohol deaths is a strange one because the absolute quantity of alcohol consumed has declined during the pandemic while deaths have increased. A tentative conclusion might be that certain groups have been binge drinking at home, likely the middle aged and older, while younger people are drinking less because bars and clubs are closed. Perhaps it's not so clever to hammer the pub trade during normal times while allowing supermarkets to promote irresponsible drinking.
 
No, I would imagine that hardly anyone has died OF Covid. Covid is putting pressure on people's bodies, and is bringing forward the death of frail and sick people. The effects on the young and fit are well documented.

There are outliers to this - frail and sick that have survived, and fit and healthy that have died. Covid is obviously a "thing", but you can't just count "excess deaths" either. There are people dying because they haven't sought medical attention, or haven't been able to get required medical treatment. Alcohol deaths have gone up, and I would guess suicide has too. The flip side of that is that some people have also been looking after themselves better, and motor deaths will decrease as there is less driving. Air quality will also have improved.

Covid is different to AIDS for example, which WAS killing healthy people.

My guess is that death rates will remain higher for a couple of years due to other medical issues that were affected by lack of medical availability. They will then drop to under the average, as the "business as usual" deaths in 5 years time won't include a portion of people that "should" be dying then, but died in 2020.
Some interesting stuff there mate, thanks.
 
HIV may have killed healthy people but its transmission was quickened by groups and whole populations with allready compromised immunity systems, poverty, living conditions and availability of health care, a familiar tale.

Are gay people born with inherently weakened immunity systems and are gay people generally more likely to be born into a family in poverty with inadequate health care?

I was under the impression that the massive spread of HIV was down to the fact a man can't make another man pregnant so there was a general lack of safe sex practices being used within the subsection of the gay community who was into the partying and freely open sexual exploration.
 
Death rates can be expected to rise now irrespective of the virus. We are an ageing population and the immediate post WWII birth bulge people are now in their 70s
 
Are gay people born with inherently weakened immunity systems and are gay people generally more likely to be born into a family in poverty with inadequate health care?

I was under the impression that the massive spread of HIV was down to the fact a man can't make another man pregnant so there was a general lack of safe sex practices being used within the subsection of the gay community who was into the partying and freely open sexual exploration.

HIV took hold in Africa because there were populations where many lived with endemic disease and compromised health. It found a ready host there to mutate and spread amongst and that is where the vast majority of deaths occurred, and are still occuring. Drug addicts were especially vulnerable due to both their depleted immune stystems, living conditions and the sharing of needles. The passage of HIV through the gay populations of certain countries was tragic but worldwide it was not the major story. A large number of infections were acquired through medical procedures. It wasn't a gay disease and we would do well to heed the lessons. Health is a worldwide concern.
 
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The wife and I have both had our first vaccination Oxford Astra Zenaca version.Both suffered side affects though mine lasted a few days including a temperature and extreme tiredness. My wife had aches and pains that last over a week as well as the symptoms I had.
Both of us were happy to have had our first dose and look forward to the day when most of the country have been fully vaccinated.
 
An endless debate with endless complications. HIV may have killed healthy people but its transmission was quickened by groups and whole populations with allready compromised immunity systems, poverty, living conditions and availability of health care, a familiar tale. It's never simple but how people live is always a big factor. One of the horror factors with HIV was that it appeared to target the young.

Alcohol deaths is a strange one because the absolute quantity of alcohol consumed has declined during the pandemic while deaths have increased. A tentative conclusion might be that certain groups have been binge drinking at home, likely the middle aged and older, while younger people are drinking less because bars and clubs are closed. Perhaps it's not so clever to hammer the pub trade during normal times while allowing supermarkets to promote irresponsible drinking.

Not sure about that- I'm in my thirties and more of my colleagues in their twenties and thirties are drinking more at home, especially one who has signed up to a 'whiskey club'. That said, we still work in an office where we are classed as 'key workers', with key worker letters, doing unsocial hours, so we do need to let off steam once either at home or once we clock off.

And as I'm partial to the odd amber nectar, my alcohol intake hasn't really declined and I find myself drinking a bit more at home and and a little more quickly and not 'pacing myself because I am at home and not making my way home. That said, I NO longer drink booze when the football is on (the power of Heineken 0.0% advertising!) and Ihaven't 'been drunk' or have woke up with a hangover since last March (after a Gills game!).
 
Many more of the younger population are dying due to covid than comes out in the statistics.

Sadly the counselling service covering youngsters who have lost a young parent from covid is very busy.
 
Time will tell Nobby.
Maybe so, but to give it proper context, it would need to be looked at over a ten year average.
It’s undeniable that some who died with covid were on their last legs anyway and equally probable that some were being kept alive by medical science with a very poor quality of life.
It’s curious that the 2020 flu deaths were over 20,000 down on the 2019 figure.
As I say, it will all come out in the wash.
Of course what doesn’t help is that most countries are recording things differently.

There will be less flu deaths simply due to social distancing and lockdown Does that mean that you can add or take off 20000 from the covid death figures for the average. People can use these figures in any way to prove their argument.

as you say the figures will tell us more over a longer period.
 
There will be less flu deaths simply due to social distancing and lockdown Does that mean that you can add or take off 20000 from the covid death figures for the average. People can use these figures in any way to prove their argument.

as you say the figures will tell us more over a longer period.


Myself and a couple of other guys were talking about something similar at work this week. Not deaths or flu as such but all 3 of us have at least 2 children of school age and usual years by February we all would’ve had countless coughs, snivels and colds brought into the house.
This year due to mask wearing, distancing, lockdowns and better cleanliness we have had nothing. There has been no winter vomiting bug as with previous years. I have the flu jab every year via work but I also don’t know of any flu cases amongst family or friends either.

Maybe this IS the way of the future.
 
Myself and a couple of other guys were talking about something similar at work this week. Not deaths or flu as such but all 3 of us have at least 2 children of school age and usual years by February we all would’ve had countless coughs, snivels and colds brought into the house.
This year due to mask wearing, distancing, lockdowns and better cleanliness we have had nothing. There has been no winter vomiting bug as with previous years. I have the flu jab every year via work but I also don’t know of any flu cases amongst family or friends either.

Maybe this IS the way of the future.

I don't know - I'm not sure there is much wrong with children getting the snots. They need to build up resistance, raising kids in a squeaky clean house is a mistake IMO (at least that's what I told my Mrs at the time!).
 
I don't know - I'm not sure there is much wrong with children getting the snots. They need to build up resistance, raising kids in a squeaky clean house is a mistake IMO (at least that's what I told my Mrs at the time!).
I don’t mind the kids getting the snots 3x6. It’s bringing it home and infecting me with it I don’t like!
 
Myself and a couple of other guys were talking about something similar at work this week. Not deaths or flu as such but all 3 of us have at least 2 children of school age and usual years by February we all would’ve had countless coughs, snivels and colds brought into the house.
This year due to mask wearing, distancing, lockdowns and better cleanliness we have had nothing. There has been no winter vomiting bug as with previous years. I have the flu jab every year via work but I also don’t know of any flu cases amongst family or friends either.

Maybe this IS the way of the future.
Good point. I'd guess that the usual winter illnesses and deaths from flu have been reduced a bit due to all the health measures.