The great big short Summer Transfer and "What the hell do we do now" Thread | Page 222 | Vital Football

The great big short Summer Transfer and "What the hell do we do now" Thread

Calvin Plummer said:
How are we making a decent fist of it?

Tell you what, go through the last few seasons and see how many players in their 30s sold for 4m in the championship. I had a quick look and couldn't see any but could easily have missed some.

This discussion has always been about potential for development and resale. I'm sorry if you've jumped into something and not understood it. Can't really help you there.

We are also a far bigger club than Brentford, we can afford an academy and to sign promising players in the 20-25 bracket. Derby, Reading etc all managed it so your argument holds 0 water.

There's a reason why our wage bill is so high, churn of managers and expensive players who don't represent value for money. Gambling on a 22yr old is far less risky than a Jenkinson etc.
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Didn't we sign Grabban as a 30 year old?

Had Taylor stayed at Charlton & been under contract, I'd expect him to have gone for at least £3m+.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
They aren't nominal risk there when our wage to turnover ratio is so poor and obviously will be borderline catastrophic with loss of revenue. We need a constant stream of players to sell, what happens if the academy has a fallow period?

If Roberts was good enough to play over half Leeds games last season there is no reason to believe he wouldn't get time here over De Costa etc. They're better than us.
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Time will tell with Nuno, injured then covid..... let's give him a decent chance before writing him off.

I will give you Bong as a very poor bit of business, with the benefit of hindsight.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Didn't we sign Grabban as a 30 year old?

Had Taylor stayed at Charlton & been under contract, I'd expect him to have gone for at least £3m+.
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Yup had just turned 30, significantly higher pedigree than Taylor though. Who else though? Selling him to ourselves, even with EM in charge isn't really an option

The championship is going to crunch financially too, the money even more so will be in the PL and our signings will be of 0 interest to them.

As Bash said what happens if we go through a few seasons of no academy prospects? How do we fund the club then?

Spread the risk is all I'm saying.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Yup had just turned 30, significantly higher pedigree than Taylor though. Who else though? Selling him to ourselves, even with EM in charge isn't really an option

The championship is going to crunch financially too, the money even more so will be in the PL and our signings will be of 0 interest to them.

As Bash said what happens if we go through a few seasons of no academy prospects? How do we fund the club then?

Spread the risk is all I'm saying.
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Happy to spread the risk.

Academy isn't the only focus though, we have signed Larsson, McGuane & several others signed recently just for the u23's, to add to the academy production line.

We still have Yates, Worrall, Smith, Gabriel, Talyor, Mighten, Brennan Johnson, Swan & Shelvey that are all either involved with first team or on the fringes.

On their own, these are enough to cover the next few years of those prospects that are saleable, with more to come.

Then the u23 signings, so I'm confident (given the proven success) that we will still have more to come from the u16s and thus a decent source of funding moving forward.
 
Basha73 said:
That’s one thing that should scare the crap out of people - the fact we are relying on selling mainly academy graduates to keep in line with FFP. As you say what happens if there is no one to sell?

I appreciate the board are trying to deal with it by reducing costs and increasing income but it can’t happen soon enough for me.

Championship clubs will always have to sell but we need to do it because it suits us, not because we have no other choice.
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And to be in the position where to sell a player is by choice, the club needs to be in the PL.
And for that, we need at least some experienced battle hardened pros.
Bit of a catch 22, especially when many of those players you bought in to get us promoted will need replacing themselves.

Going forward though, I think the make-up of any sales from 'mainly academy graduates' will change; I can see Soh, Silva, Ribeiro and perhaps Samba or Lolley increasing the non-academy percentage of future sales.

We should not forget that its a self-fulfilling prophecy that most of the big ticket sales that we have enjoyed in the past have been from the academy because the senior players we had at the time were poor and didnt have the age/potential elements the kids did. However, we still managed to add £20m for Britt and Antonio even then.

As for running out of actual academy talent? With Yates, Gabriel, Worrall Johnson and Mighten in the current first team squad, I dont see the conveyor belt slowing just yet.
 
DR Forest said:
And to be in the position where to sell a player is by choice, the club needs to be in the PL.
And for that, we need at least some experienced battle hardened pros.
Bit of a catch 22, especially when many of those players you bought in to get us promoted will need replacing themselves.

Going forward though, I think the make-up of any sales from 'mainly academy graduates' will change; I can see Soh, Silva, Ribeiro and perhaps Samba or Lolley increasing the non-academy percentage of future sales.

We should not forget that its a self-fulfilling prophecy that most of the big ticket sales that we have enjoyed in the past have been from the academy because the senior players we had at the time were poor and didnt have the age/potential elements the kids did. However, we still managed to add £20m for Britt and Antonio even then.

As for running out of actual academy talent? With Yates, Gabriel, Worrall Johnson and Mighten in the current first team squad, I dont see the conveyor belt slowing just yet.
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Britt 22, Antonio 24. The type of signings you are arguing against us making lol
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Happy to spread the risk.

Academy isn't the only focus though, we have signed Larsson, McGuane & several others signed recently just for the u23's, to add to the academy production line.

We still have Yates, Worrall, Smith, Gabriel, Talyor, Mighten, Brennan Johnson, Swan & Shelvey that are all either involved with first team or on the fringes.

On their own, these are enough to cover the next few years of those prospects that are saleable, with more to come.

Then the u23 signings, so I'm confident (given the proven success) that we will still have more to come from the u16s and thus a decent source of funding moving forward.
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Even if the academy keeps producing (and there is no guarantee half those will be worth significant fees, remember Westcarr etc) why not have both? The more saleable assets we have, the more freedom we have to chose when we sell, how much we sell for and which player we do sell.
 
We are looking to sign another 30 year old with no resale value.

I have visions of Plummer stood on the highest window ledge on the East Wing of his Home Counties mansion threatening to jump if the news is confirmed
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Even if the academy keeps producing (and there is no guarantee half those will be worth significant fees, remember Westcarr etc) why not have both? The more saleable assets we have, the more freedom we have to chose when we sell, how much we sell for and which player we do sell.
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The academy has improved significantly though from the times of Westcarr CP & this is something that I do know a fair bit about, certainly those aged 16 - 20.

We've always done pretty well, as far back as Dawson(s), Jenas, Williams, Gemmill etc etc etc (& further).

Current crop are very good though and with FFP, this focus is not lost on NFFC - hence, the continued investment therein. Our academy is genuinely very well thought of and is certainly a positive!!

I do wonder if we'll go for Cat 1 at some point?
 
Our Kids Dad said:
If we're going for Arter - I wonder if Silva is on his way and that almost certainly sees Carvalho going too?
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Hmmm. I would think it's one or other. If they both go that has be at least 10m, but we still need a winger or 2, and to ship out Adomah, Hefe, Benny and Clough
 
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