The Official Dean Smith Thread | Page 317 | Vital Football

The Official Dean Smith Thread

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JP Healy said:
Making a wider point Jonathan. Managers don't have to be from Spain, Germany, Portugal or South America. Smith has promoted us,got us to a Wembley final,where a post prevented us taking a club who buy the world's top players to extra time. Then kept us in the premier league with a team who finished fifth in the championship. Then he lost two of his best players, Tuanzabe and Abraham, compounded by losing Heaton and Mcginn to long term injuries. He was not helped by shambolic recruitment which used moneyball rather than his preferences for Webster, Phillips, Benrhama and Maupay. He took over a shambles not too many months ago and despite recruitment issues and calamitous injuries,we are a premier league club.
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I didn't say anything about location JP. You go for the best, not for their country of birth.

Also did edit my post to add Ron wasn't average.

Wembley, yes, I don't over buy into that bit, two rounds were gifts. Leicester, fantastic though, agree on that when people mention. And to be fair, you can only play what is in front of you. The Cup was devalued even more last season with the antics of so many teams, including Wolves and also what Liverpool were forced to do.

Not going over the same arguments re who did and didn't make decisions, the CEO and manager both said they were heavily involved, if they allowed Suso to fully recruit and neither had a say, then a) they shouldn't have said otherwise b) they should both be sacked on the spot for allowing that!
 
The Fear said:
We really do, consistently, go for very average managers don't we?
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This data althought four years old would suggest there arent many good managers out there.
· The average manager has two jobs, across 1165 days and will take the helm for 91 games. They will oversee 33 wins, 25 draws and 33 losses – giving them a 30% win rate. On average, they won’t win a trophy.
· The most ‘average’ Premier League manager is former Man City and Nottingham Forest boss Stuart Pearce, who registered 32 wins and 26 draws at a win percentage of 30.77%
· Harry Redknapp has had the most Premier League jobs (six), followed by Sam Allardyce and Mark Hughes who are on five each
· Sir Alex Ferguson managed the most games (810), followed by Arsene Wenger (763) and Redknapp (641)
· Redknapp has presided over the most losses at 238, with Allardyce just behind on 181
· Nearly 60% of all managers only get one Premier League job. Out of the 210 bosses since 1992, only 85 got a second job.
 
That might be the problem! Just looking at a few win ratios of managers

The one stat is strange, on average most don't win a trophy. I'd think that is obvious, there aren't that many trophies that you can win and there are a good few clubs - and that is dominated by a few top clubs.
 
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Pochettino,

Went from 32.9% at Espanyol, to 38.3% at Saints, to 54.3 at Spurs.

Lambert, a guy I REALLY didn't want ranges from 13% to 49.3 (Norwich) a lot of average % He got 29% whilst at Villa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lambert

We could have had Rafa. He was approached under Randy, his right hand man said he was happy to talk but could they guarantee (from memory) £20m in transfer funds. Randy took that as a snub, that the manager should just meet to discuss, so didn't pursue it. Some great win ratios with Rafa, bearing in mind some very good funding, but also some not as massive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Benítez

Steve Bruce, some very impressive win ratios. 45% at Villa and that was during real turmoil and taking over a sinking ship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bruce Dipped to 31% at Newcastle, again, I think he took over a sinking ship so that might rise. Who knows (frankly, if it isn't Villa, who cares!)

Gregory 43% at Villa. All lower elsewhere.

Big Ron 43.3% at Villa.

Graham Taylor all over 40% until Watford 37% and a return to us where he was shafted by Doug. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Taylor

Houllier 51% for Liverpool, Olympique 63.89% For us, short lived to be fair, 38.89%

Anyway, not sure... who knows who would work, who won't work. I just don't believe we have the true ambitions and I am dying to be wrong one fine year. Our recent (nearly 2 decades) history does not match the talk we are constantly fed or the stature of what this club could be (not should be, it isn't entitlement then)
 
ldgavfc said:
Dean Smith strikes me as a winner. I'm convinced he could take us to Europe and another cup final next season with the right players.
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I don't want to go to Cup finals, I want to win Cup finals. That might be where we differ.

:tongue::tongue::tongue:

:grinning:

And yes, he could, I hope he does, if he remains then I have all my hopes in that very thing happening. If not, at least he and the CEO can blame the latest director of football though, so it is win-win for them ?

He might well strike you as a winner, fucking hope so mate, SO hope so. But his stats don't strike me as a winner... maybe he'll end up 50% or more with Villa. I can but pray.
 
Villan57 said:
and Poch has won what?:throw:
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Yes Villan,in his season and a half,Smith has won at Wembley in the so called richest game in world football and lost, by a goal to one of the richest clubs on the planet. Then, despite poor recruitment, managed to improve the team, enough to survive,Whilst Championship winners, Norwich,folded.
 
The Fear said:
I don't want to go to Cup finals, I want to win Cup finals. That might be where we differ.

:tongue::tongue::tongue:

:grinning:

And yes, he could, I hope he does, if he remains then I have all my hopes in that very thing happening. If not, at least he and the CEO can blame the latest director of football though, so it is win-win for them ?

He might well strike you as a winner, fucking hope so mate, SO hope so. But his stats don't strike me as a winner... maybe he'll end up 50% or more with Villa. I can but pray.
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Because I want to go to cup finals and lose?

His stats? He had a higher win percentage with us than any other continuing manager had with their respective clubs in the premier league at the start of the season. You expect him to maintain a 60% win percentage with bloody Wesley and Trezeguet as our marquee attacking purchases last summer?
 
LewChatterley'sLover said:
I think it bears repeating that we were 14th in the championship and heading down, not up, when he arrived. 18 months on and he's getting slated for only just keeping us in the Prem.
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I actually don't understand the lack of respect and recognition of his performance so far. People say Steve Bruce steadied the sinking ship. I reckon the ship was long sunk before Steve Bruce took over. Dean Smith made the ship buoyant again and we are still afloat a season and a half later. Time to put some wind in the sails and get a few half decent players in now and see what he can do.
 
ldgavfc said:
Because I want to go to cup finals and lose?

His stats? He had a higher win percentage with us than any other continuing manager had with their respective clubs in the premier league at the start of the season. You expect him to maintain a 60% win percentage with bloody Wesley and Trezeguet as our marquee attacking purchases last summer?
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You could surely see that was tongue in cheek ldg? Even the silly emoticons show that. If you don't like banter mate, put me on ignore, I cannot help but pull people's legs (and also, can't stop trying to keep the discussions going and involved, it's my job).

As for the rest, I don't think I can debate with you really, I'm at best on the fence, trying to be hopeful, but you can't seem to find any sort of debate other than he's the best. I'm looking for proper signs and debates, not having things I haven't said thrown my way.

So no, I didn't expect 60%, nowhere have I communicated unrealistic expectations, I've taken HIS and the CEO's expectations. And their talk of how excited they were at the players the THREE of them were bringing in.

I'll hope to God you are right and my well founded, in my humble, doubts are soooo wrong. We've had an awful lot of average managers and none of them have proven me wrong, maybe this one will be the one.

My argument is, always has been, not just with this manager, is this club talks big and acts small. Plenty of small clubs do the opposite and there is a good list of them that were a) above us in the 3 seasons of the Championship b) are above us in the current table.

You go for a higher pedigree, you hedge your bets that you'll do better. There are no guarantees, ever. It is just logic.

I expect the managers recruited to match the talk and the claims of where owners/CEO's say we are heading.
 
Wurzel said:
Has Dean been slated for keeping us up? I haven't read that on here anyway. In fact I would say he has had a pretty universal well done from the parishioners of this fair site.
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Same, think people are relieved and I showed a few posts to MF when he was suggesting - and has retracted (!) - what he percieved of my attitude wishing Dean luck to keep us up, how awful it would be FOR HIM personally to take us down, especially with the grief he is going through over his dad and the fact he's a lifelong fan. Plus posted in the match thread what a huge relief and how happy I was.

Still doesn't mean we can't discuss the manager, ceo, players and the way forward though. Or not for most of us.
 
It’s obvious that Dean Smith is with us for a while. That being so I hope he’s a massive success and gets to have a huge say in the transfers in the coming weeks. He may have made mistakes and took time to find effective tactics but has had some bad luck in terms of long term injuries. VAR hasn’t been kind and our new recruits have taken a long time to settle in and, in some cases, are well below standards.
Like everyone else here I’m not interested in second best. Just being there to make up the numbers and give the Sky favourites a (not too difficult) game is not an attractive proposition.
Smith is going to be given a chance to move us on. I hope he takes the chance in style.
 
Villan57 said:
and Poch has won what?:throw:
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:grinning::grinning:

There is only so much there to be won, but high league positions, getting into the champions league, etc and so on and so forth, and as per the Spurs fans opinions I got, they said it was - in comparative terms with clubs around them - a fairly limited budget. (And again, for those that only want to read certain words posted, budget/comparative terms with those around them)

Interesting upward curve of his win ratio, I hope as he looks like he is staying, we see that with Dean Smith.
 
The Fear said:
You could surely see that was tongue in cheek ldg? Even the silly emoticons show that. If you don't like banter mate, put me on ignore, I cannot help but pull people's legs (and also, can't stop trying to keep the discussions going and involved, it's my job).

As for the rest, I don't think I can debate with you really, I'm at best on the fence, trying to be hopeful, but you can't seem to find any sort of debate other than he's the best. I'm looking for proper signs and debates, not having things I haven't said thrown my way.

So no, I didn't expect 60%, nowhere have I communicated unrealistic expectations, I've taken HIS and the CEO's expectations. And their talk of how excited they were at the players the THREE of them were bringing in.

I'll hope to God you are right and my well founded, in my humble, doubts are soooo wrong. We've had an awful lot of average managers and none of them have proven me wrong, maybe this one will be the one.

My argument is, always has been, not just with this manager, is this club talks big and acts small. Plenty of small clubs do the opposite and there is a good list of them that were a) above us in the 3 seasons of the Championship b) are above us in the current table.

You go for a higher pedigree, you hedge your bets that you'll do better. There are no guarantees, ever. It is just logic.

I expect the managers recruited to match the talk and the claims of where owners/CEO's say we are heading.
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I appreciate the banter don't worry! You have been talking about stats today, particularly win percentage stats, so I rebuke that Dean had around 60% win percentage, a higher win percentage than all or most of the managers in the premier league at the start of 19/20. So where does the fault lie for the reduction of that 60% win percentage to what it is currently? Is it because Dean isnt as good as Poch or is it he had Trezequet, Wesley, Samatta, El Ghazi etc. Etc. At his disposal against 18 or so far superior squads this season?
 
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