The player who left thread | Page 223 | Vital Football

The player who left thread

Its painfully obvious to me that him, the rest of the team and every opposition team know full well that bar some miracle he's the only person in claret and blue that's going to do anything at all.

Opposition knows that if they mark him close and foul him every chance they get there's a good chance we aren't scoring.

Our lot don't believe in themselves enough not to rely on him. Including passing to him when others are in a better position.

He in turn will try too much. We need to learn how to be a team again.

He must be absolutely black and blue with the kicks and blocks he has every game. He's probably nowhere near fit enough to play but he will
 
Sorry for repeating an above post but I felt today's showing only adds more weight to my post. Simply, I do not understand the clamour for him to play in the middle.

Grealish has never, ever excelled when playing in central midfield. This season has been the best of his career by every meaningful metric and the eye ball test. He has never played so well and he has done this from an inside left position.

On the left he gets more space and it guarantees he stays further up the pitch. In the middle he struggles more due to less space, his passing frankly isn't amazing from that position either and he spends too much time in his own half.

For me Grealish should either be back in an inside left position or have a freer role off the forward.

My thoughts in no particular order:

Jack doesn’t know what player he wants to be, for me he needs to model his game on someone successful and stick with it. He wants to be everyone, my advice to him is that he’ll ultimately be remembered for the assists and goals he creates, not the amount of touches he has in a game. Bruno Fernandez is a player I like that jack could be, it’s different circumstances but it’s the same role.

He needs to learn, and be coached, about tempo - when to play it forwards quickly and when to hold onto it. Too often, it’s the latter when it should be the former. If we’re 3-0 up, take as many touches as you want and slow it down. Too many half opportunities are lost because jack wants to make a guaranteed pass but there’s nothing wrong with a quick ball over the top to a winger.

Positionally, he doesn’t stick to his role. I reckon there must be some frustration within the ranks. Too often today he’s dropping to pick the ball up off Mings in arms distance of Luiz and Marv. None of them have any understanding, if Luiz was being pulled away I would get it.

As a captain, he doesn’t have leadership qualities to take control when things go badly. Against Chelsea, we needed to sit tight for ten yet we conceded immediately after goal number 1. Just before half time today, him and Hourihane messed up an opportunity to get it in the box from a free kick. I don’t see a smart leader with stereotypical captain attributes, I see a player who leads by example which is great when’s things are going well.

Jack is probably the most talented player we have ever had in the top flight, in one of the worst ever premier league sides we’ve had. He’s over compensating but he’s also proving to be a massive problem with his lack of awareness. I’m not jack bashing before anyone pulls me up on it. It’s constructive criticism for jack to improve when he moves on to better things, and also for us to make him more productive in these final few games.
 
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Watching the MU v Nor game - it stood out to me that Cantwell was moving things quicker than Jack has this year. Everything goes through him basically but it's looking like he's afraid to lose the ball, rather than punting and fucking up. He took plenty of punts in the Champ and it paid off, he needs to remember that.

And it's definitely not his job to be within 10 yards of our penalty box, or ala Newkie, providing double cover to fullbacks. It wastes him and his energy.
 
My thoughts in no particular order:

Jack doesn’t know what player he wants to be, for me he needs to model his game on someone successful and stick with it. He wants to be everyone, my advice to him is that he’ll ultimately be remembered for the assists and goals he creates, not the amount of touches he has in a game. Bruno Fernandez is a player I like that jack could be, it’s different circumstances but it’s the same role.

He needs to learn, and be coached, about tempo - when to play it forwards quickly and when to hold onto it. Too often, it’s the latter when it should be the former. If we’re 3-0 up, take as many touches as you want and slow it down. Too many half opportunities are lost because jack wants to make a guaranteed pass but there’s nothing wrong with a quick ball over the top to a winger.

Positionally, he doesn’t stick to his role. I reckon there must be some frustration within the ranks. Too often today he’s dropping to pick the ball up off Mings in arms distance of Luiz and Marv. None of them have any understanding, if Luiz was being pulled away I would get it.

As a captain, he doesn’t have leadership qualities to take control when things go badly. Against Chelsea, we needed to sit tight for ten yet we conceded immediately after goal number 1. Justice before half time today, him and Hourihane messed up an opportunity to get it in the box from a free kick. I don’t see a smart leader with stereotypical captain attributes, I see a player who leads by example which is great when’s things are going well.

Jack is probably the most talented player we have ever had in the top flight, in one of the worst ever premier league sides we’ve had. He’s over compensating but he’s also proving to be a massive problem with his lack of awareness. I’m not jack bashing before anyone pulls me up on it. It’s constructive criticism for jack to improve when he moves on to better things, and also for us to make him more productive in these final few games.

Well put Dan, good players let the ball do the work. Jack is brilliant and the only player worth watching (although Luiz is starting to shine) but i find myself shouting FFS Jack just pass it!!
 
My thoughts in no particular order:

Jack doesn’t know what player he wants to be, for me he needs to model his game on someone successful and stick with it. He wants to be everyone, my advice to him is that he’ll ultimately be remembered for the assists and goals he creates, not the amount of touches he has in a game. Bruno Fernandez is a player I like that jack could be, it’s different circumstances but it’s the same role.

He needs to learn, and be coached, about tempo - when to play it forwards quickly and when to hold onto it. Too often, it’s the latter when it should be the former. If we’re 3-0 up, take as many touches as you want and slow it down. Too many half opportunities are lost because jack wants to make a guaranteed pass but there’s nothing wrong with a quick ball over the top to a winger.

Positionally, he doesn’t stick to his role. I reckon there must be some frustration within the ranks. Too often today he’s dropping to pick the ball up off Mings in arms distance of Luiz and Marv. None of them have any understanding, if Luiz was being pulled away I would get it.

As a captain, he doesn’t have leadership qualities to take control when things go badly. Against Chelsea, we needed to sit tight for ten yet we conceded immediately after goal number 1. Just before half time today, him and Hourihane messed up an opportunity to get it in the box from a free kick. I don’t see a smart leader with stereotypical captain attributes, I see a player who leads by example which is great when’s things are going well.

Jack is probably the most talented player we have ever had in the top flight, in one of the worst ever premier league sides we’ve had. He’s over compensating but he’s also proving to be a massive problem with his lack of awareness. I’m not jack bashing before anyone pulls me up on it. It’s constructive criticism for jack to improve when he moves on to better things, and also for us to make him more productive in these final few games.
Great post.

I think relative mediocrity beckons if he doesn't figure this out soon. He's not going to get into any 'top' side trying to be a number 8, that's for sure.
 
Well put Dan, good players let the ball do the work. Jack is brilliant and the only player worth watching (although Luiz is starting to shine) but i find myself shouting FFS Jack just pass it!!

A couple of people in my WhatsApp groups are touting jack for Liverpool including one of my Villa mates - I want to see him go where he can rule the world - not become the next Adam Lallana. But I don’t see him fitting into Liverpool at the moment, Klopp would have to drill him into the new Liverpool style.

Can you imagine how frustrated Mane and Salah will be, with jack holding onto the ball for 3-4 touches more than he should’ve? Just one touch too many and he would kill Robertson and AAT’s runs down the flanks, and Mane and Salah would be offside.

We had the Maddison/Mount/Grealish debate the other day on the same WhatsApp group, and to me Jack is different to those two. They have less touches, but are sometimes more effective. They’re different players, but if jack becomes more of a receive-pass-move-receive player, he would be effective at that because his energy would be used in a different way. He also has in his locker those two don’t of being able to hold onto it when it’s needed.
 
After the first few games when he was caught on the ball, I thought he stepped up nicely and adjusting and did get quicker. He just hasn't finished yet, his feet have caught up in some ways - now his brain in terms of decisions needs to take the next step, so his feet can catch up again.

It's not actually a criticism really, every player who makes it has to find that next gear and he's sort of halfway there.
 
On that I disagree mate. When it comes to Jack it's an individual process on stepping up.

Unless I've completely misread?

This may confuse it more but the way I see it - Jack is 24, prime time for coaching. I would argue at any age, you need coaching. If you are 30, you need coaching on how to change your game as your body starts to slow down. Yes, it’s a personal stepping up - but jacks head of what stepping up means, is trying to work harder and over compensate - not play smarter and more effectively.

I don’t know if jack sits and watches his game back, I hope he does - I assume they do this as part of routine. Steven Gerrard made the transition from holding destroyer midfielder to attacking midfielder and goalscorer around this age, this is the key time for Jack to now identify the player is he wants to be and work on his game with the coaches to get there.

Pep or Klopp will make him one of the best European players after 12 months with him.
 
After the first few games when he was caught on the ball, I thought he stepped up nicely and adjusting and did get quicker. He just hasn't finished yet, his feet have caught up in some ways - now his brain in terms of decisions needs to take the next step, so his feet can catch up again.

It's not actually a criticism really, every player who makes it has to find that next gear and he's sort of halfway there.

On that point, if it didn't make sense.

I was thinking Giggs didn't really find himself until he decided to go past people at all costs. Much in the way Beckham didn't become Beckham until he stopped trying to go past people and worked on putting balls in from everywhere and spotted the early ball and made it count etc.

Jack's at the halfway house, clearly Prem quality and he gets a lot of unfair criticism now because we expect so much from him, but he needs to take the next step - out of all the comparisons - I'd say De Bruyne is the type of player he is more than capable of becoming.
 
This may confuse it more but the way I see it - Jack is 24, prime time for coaching. I would argue at any age, you need coaching. If you are 30, you need coaching on how to change your game as your body starts to slow down. Yes, it’s a personal stepping up - but jacks head of what stepping up means, is trying to work harder and over compensate - not play smarter and more effectively.

I don’t know if jack sits and watches his game back, I hope he does - I assume they do this as part of routine. Steven Gerrard made the transition from holding destroyer midfielder to attacking midfielder and goalscorer around this age, this is the key time for Jack to now identify the player is he wants to be and work on his game with the coaches to get there.

Pep or Klopp will make him one of the best European players after 12 months with him.

Sorry, certainly not denying the coaching element and the hammering home of 'do this now' when he dallies on the ball etc and that goes to a Pep or Klopp etc.

I just think the next immediate step is more in his mind than anything a coach can say or do. In some ways he needs to realise he's not the team and he needs to stop acting like that - the difference between a coach in training bollocking him every time he enters 'our' half and he complies but Jack mentally stopping himself from going into our half during a game when the frustration/passion rises.

Completely agree on JG (maybe captaincy related?) has moved to going for miles, compensating and running everywhere. That needs to stop, but for me, until he realises it it won't change.

In his position he better bloody watch his games back!

Yes, Gerrard is also a good reference although obviously Jack hasn't the same physicality.
 
Jack's at the halfway house, clearly Prem quality and he gets a lot of unfair criticism now because we expect so much from him, but he needs to take the next step - out of all the comparisons - I'd say De Bruyne is the type of player he is more than capable of becoming.

What I find interesting about jack, he’s got technique which makes him an unbelievable dribbler and ball carrier. What he doesn’t have is that technique that De Bryune or Lampard have or had, where they could generate that direct power to ping the ball in from 30 yards. When he cuts in from the left his shots aren’t pings, they are curlers.

I want see jack stealing a few parts of David Silvas game actually. He (Silva) plays on a six pence, plays quick football one and two touch with his team mates largely but can hold the ball up in the final third in front of a back four and play intricate balls through the gap at the right time.

If he can become a De Bryune/Silva mould he’ll be the most expensive player in the world!
 
Problem is with Jack is when he's on song he's a 9 out of 10, even when he has an off game he's a 7 and still our best player.

We won't have a good side until we can start a game with him on the bench now and then because we can win without him. He has to play every minute he is fit as we simply don't have anyone like him and to be honest England don't have anyone like him.
He's a one-off with the ball at his feet, he glides across the pitch like no other English player, we have to find a way to harness that talent not stifle it
 
Grealish is not a team player. He would not be anywhere near that Man Utd first team and with his lifestyle and small brain I can't see him fulfilling his potential
 
What I find interesting about jack, he’s got technique which makes him an unbelievable dribbler and ball carrier. What he doesn’t have is that technique that De Bryune or Lampard have or had, where they could generate that direct power to ping the ball in from 30 yards. When he cuts in from the left his shots aren’t pings, they are curlers.

I want see jack stealing a few parts of David Silvas game actually. He (Silva) plays on a six pence, plays quick football one and two touch with his team mates largely but can hold the ball up in the final third in front of a back four and play intricate balls through the gap at the right time.

If he can become a De Bryune/Silva mould he’ll be the most expensive player in the world!

Yes, I think that's why this season he's clearly bulked up a touch rather than being a noodle (to use a phrase popular with my kids lol). I think it has been identified but he doesn't yet quite trust it.

Silva is also a bloody good shout as a model there.

I think he's capable, but he needs to believe it - stop getting pissed - and knuckle down like Milner. Get JG's brain to a one/two touch mentality and the world is his oyster given the other parts of his game in my humble.
 
Grealish is not a team player. He would not be anywhere near that Man Utd first team and with his lifestyle and small brain I can't see him fulfilling his potential

I'm not quite sure how to answer that dude.

His lifestyle based on 1 story in basically half a decade? Which ignores all of the private shit he does for the Foundation and refuses the publicity?

If he wasn't a team player, then nobody should accuse him of choking on shots because he lays others in. Nor can they moan he's in our penalty box doing defensive work because he wants to be involved to help his team.
 
Some of Jacks problem is the fact he is playing for his own team. He tries to do it all on his own as he is desperate for his team to win. Its also probably the fact he does not trust some of the rest of them.

And that's what he needs to learn as well. He's spent too long as a 12 yr old single handedly winning us games, taking us to Wembley, Europe and lifting trophies.

Fuck knows I still have dreams like that now and I've turned 40, and I'd be out of breath before I got out the tunnel these days.