Aston Villa v Chelsea Match Thread - Sun 21 June - 4.15pm

[danvilla2]

What matters at the moment is staying up, not whether Smith goes or not. Question is how. We're still not out of it. The Newcastle game is critical.

As to Dean, he has 8 games to convince us (or maybe the owners) that it's worthwhile him staying. If we were falling apart I'd be inclined to give up on Dean and give JT a go, but we're not there yet. And the critical thing whatever is us staying up. We might yet strike lucky.

I would genuinely rather see JT at least give it a go as caretaker for 8 games, than watch Dean persevere with the same shit again Wednesday.

I’m not saying JT would do it - the odds are stacked against us - but I know what JT would do, and it wouldnt be letting players arrive at the back post unmarked.

What JT does defensively, his influence stifles going forward. But as we can’t go forward that’s not a huge thing to stifle.

 

[mike_field]

In fairness to Jack, he did put a shift in, but it was tracking back and defensive work rather than where we need him. On an attacking front, better from Targett I thought but he was left so exposed at the back it was frightening.

 

[Divine_islet]

Yet another expected defeat which is not surprising. However, those expecting to see Smith learn from all of the defeats would be disappointed as he won't change. Not because he is stubborn, but because he does not even think that there is a problem that needs fixing. Hence, get ready to see the same players in the same formations etc to continue through to the end of the season. Those saying that he should be given till the end of the season before deciding he should be sacked, what for? To play the same clueless football again?

Even if we play players in the right positions, the plan won't change, which is to pass the ball to Jack as soon as we can, and even with Jack in form we cannot expect him to keep us up on his own. We have to accept that we are not going to stay up playing like this. I see some saying that we still have 8 games to go, however, it has been obvious to me for quite some time that Smith is not the man.

The most surprising thing for me was watching the Newcastle game and seeing that they were passing the ball forwards from the back along the ground and did not look like a Bruce side whose long ball football I hated, and hence wanted Smith seeing how Brentford played. Now I see that we are playing almost like when we were under Bruce and Newcastle playing as if they are under Smith !

 

[danvilla2]

In fairness to Jack, he did put a shift in, but it was tracking back and defensive work rather than where we need him. On an attacking front, better from Targett I thought but he was left so exposed at the back it was frightening.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying jack isn’t trying or putting a shift in. But he’s not exerting his energy in the right areas of the pitch because he’s over compensating for shit tactics.

If the players are so thick or language barriers aren’t working, go 4-4-1 and then let jack do whatever the fuck he wants. If he doesn’t touch the ball hardly for 80 mins but sets up a goal with ten mins left to get a draw or a win I’ll be happy with that.

 

[Villan57]

In fairness to Jack, he did put a shift in, but it was tracking back and defensive work rather than where we need him. On an attacking front, better from Targett I thought but he was left so exposed at the back it was frightening.

Targett was ok but imagine having Hourihane dancing about next to you like a big fairy rather than getting stuck in and winning the ball.

Like everyone is saying Smith keeps reverting back to the same old , we bought players in on loan 2 are on the bench and the other fucker hasn't even made that

 

[Villan57]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying jack isn’t trying or putting a shift in. But he’s not exerting his energy in the right areas of the pitch because he’s over compensating for shit tactics.

If the players are so thick or language barriers aren’t working, go 4-4-1 and then let jack do whatever the fuck he wants. If he doesn’t touch the ball hardly for 80 mins but sets up a goal with ten mins left to get a draw or a win I’ll be happy with that.

the only time he looked dangerous was near the end when he ran at the centre of their defence and that dirt little count Kante legged him up and the defender clattered into nearly causing a flight

 

[mike_field]

Drinky was ineligible today 57. (maybe thankfully!)

Completely agree Dan, no point Jack busting his bollocks as a pseudo sweeper/defensive midfielder - it's not where he's needed. He should come past the half way line and whoever is up top should be no nearer than 10 yards to him there.

 

[mike_field]

And yup Divine, we all knew we needed to tighten up at the back/stronger in midfield - but the fact our attacking nouse has gone is one of the biggest disappointments.

We looked like scoring and conceding...no we don't often look like scoring.

 

[Dumble]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying jack isn’t trying or putting a shift in. But he’s not exerting his energy in the right areas of the pitch because he’s over compensating for shit tactics.

If the players are so thick or language barriers aren’t working, go 4-4-1 and then let jack do whatever the fuck he wants. If he doesn’t touch the ball hardly for 80 mins but sets up a goal with ten mins left to get a draw or a win I’ll be happy with that.

Agree 100%

if Guilbert was fit I think I’d play him wide right of a midfield 4 would get stuck in and not bad going forward. Don’t know how long he’s out for?

whoops sent two early. Edit:

this 4-3-3 (more like 4-5-1 with us) only works in the modern game if you have bloody good full backs imo. When was the last time we had a decent one of those?!

At least 4 in mid would give a bit more support (I’ve previously thought we could play a diamond midfield but now not so sure).

bottom line is we wasted that 160 mil if at this point we don’t know what our best line up is both personnel and system!!

 

[Divine_islet]

And yup Divine, we all knew we needed to tighten up at the back/stronger in midfield - but the fact our attacking nouse has gone is one of the biggest disappointments.

We looked like scoring and conceding...no we don't often look like scoring.

Forget about scoring in the premier league, I have no faith in this team scoring even in the Championship even with the entire squad if we are still under Smith and he continues to be the way he is and the team does not even know how to pass the ball.

 

[mike_field]

Agree 100%

if Guilbert was fit I think I’d play him wide right of a midfield 4 would get stuck in and not bad going forward. Don’t know how long he’s out for?

There was talk he might have returned today - so I guess fitness decision he might be back on the bench for the next one?

 

[mike_field]

Forget about scoring in the premier league, I have no faith in this team scoring even in the Championship even with the entire squad if we are still under Smith and he continues to be the way he is and the team does not even know how to pass the ball.

We did kind of score today chap! lol

I do get what you are saying though, Smith has got to go for it and the players have to believe again.

 

[danvilla2]

We did kind of score today chap! lol

I do get what you are saying though, Smith has got to go for it and the players have to believe again.

Chelsea let us have the ball and have two attempts at it, only reason we scored was rustiness from their side. Jota had his half chance, and McGinn a header. Other than that I can’t recall a lot else.

We need to be getting 7-8 shots in target in the premier league, not 3.

 

[Divine_islet]

We did kind of score today chap! lol

I do get what you are saying though, Smith has got to go for it and the players have to believe again.

Belief alone won't do it. We need to learn to pass the ball and play football the right way. Need to get someone in who can teach the team to do that or get someone in with a staff who can do so.

Changing formations as many are recommending won't do it either. We may see an improvement in performance but won't keep us up. I am not surprised Jack is the most fouled player as I am certain no other team's player receives the ball as much as Jack does !

 

[Old Trinity Villan]

If we are not going to go 442 we need to try a 4231 with Jack in the middle of the 3 behind the front man.

Its the reason his form has dropped off playing on the left. Get your best player on the ball as often as possible.

Time for

Raina
Konsa or Elmo Hause Mings Targett
Duggie Marvelous
ElGhazi or Elmo Jack McGinn
Samatta

Try something else before i combust.

 

[wittonite]

What matters at the moment is staying up, not whether Smith goes or not. Question is how. We're still not out of it. The Newcastle game is critical.

As to Dean, he has 8 games to convince us (or maybe the owners) that it's worthwhile him staying. If we were falling apart I'd be inclined to give up on Dean and give JT a go, but we're not there yet. And the critical thing whatever is us staying up. We might yet strike lucky.

Yes I would agree with some of that McParland and I would love him to keep us up, but I just cant see it happening.
We are beggining to get that look about us that Norwich and Bournemouth have got, that whatever we do its not enough.
Some of our players look like they have lost the belief.
Worse of all Jack is continually played out of position and looks fed up of the whole thing and cant wait to get away.
i think the owners will have made their mind up already, and he is staying.
They would have done something about it earlier if they hadnt.
He does know the Championship and if they kept him it would make some sense.
I am getting to the stage of not careing to be honest.
I cant see crowds being allowed back in any time soon, and I like to be there not watch it on tv, so if we had a full season where we couldnt go I think I would lose interest. I am bored rigid watching this third rate product already, and we are only a week in.
Still as you say a win at Newcastle would be massive, so fingers crossed mate and UTV.

 

[danvilla2]

19 points dropped from winning positions apparently. Dearie me.

Shocking. Now, a lower half of the lower half would naturally drop points. But that’s a shocking amount. As I posted in another thread, we’ve could’ve made that tally 5-6 points less which is the huge incremental difference between where we are now and Brighton.

 

[mike_field]

Chelsea let us have the ball and have two attempts at it, only reason we scored was rustiness from their side. Jota had his half chance, and McGinn a header. Other than that I can’t recall a lot else.

We need to be getting 7-8 shots in target in the premier league, not 3.

My stream cut out with 20 odd to go, but Chelsea were sharper than us all game long Dan. I don't buy 'they let us' have the goal. McGinn's header should've at least tested the keeper and I didn't Jota's attempt so can't comment.

Despite Smith's comments about more chances, we only actually had one less than they did on target - so with a bit of belief we could've still nicked a point thoroughly against play for me.

 

[mike_field]

Belief alone won't do it. We need to learn to pass the ball and play football the right way. Need to get someone in who can teach the team to do that or get someone in with a staff who can do so.

Changing formations as many are recommending won't do it either. We may see an improvement in performance but won't keep us up. I am not surprised Jack is the most fouled player as I am certain no other team's player receives the ball as much as Jack does !

That's belief though - confidence, trusting yourself to make the right decisions instead of panicking and going aimlessly long or backwards etc. This is not Smith's style of play and it never has been from what I saw at Walsall/Brentford. But he needs to lead from the front like last season and the almost instant changes we saw then and then we see if the players can rise to it.

If not, sub them after 10 minutes to make the point.

 

[Divine_islet]

That's belief though - confidence, trusting yourself to make the right decisions instead of panicking and going aimlessly long or backwards etc. This is not Smith's style of play and it never has been from what I saw at Walsall/Brentford. But he needs to lead from the front like last season and the almost instant changes we saw then and then we see if the players can rise to it.

If not, sub them after 10 minutes to make the point.

How do you trust them to make the right decisions if they cannot even pass the ball, do the basis of playing attacking football right? Personally, I do not give him any credit for last season. We have mainly Jack to thank for that.