So, whadda we gonna moan abart? | Page 25 | Vital Football

So, whadda we gonna moan abart?

That would be the fair thing to do.

And my question to you?

They haven’t been fair though, individual countries have acted in their own interests. As as have India in limiting export ingredients for paracetamol, as have we for certain drugs etc. When push comes to shove individual countries will act in their own best interests first before considering others. Who knows who will get the first batch of outside ventilators, EU, UK, US? Will have to wait and see on that one.
 
They haven’t been fair though, individual countries have acted in their own interests. .

Hold on. You asked me how they'd be distributed if the EU were to buy them. Now, you're talking about each country acting in their own best interests.

An EU procurement would (I presume) stipulate an assumed distribution at the outset (based, as I "supposed" on priority). It wouldn't be a free for all ........ of each country acting on their best interests.

That's the way we (in the EU and in with US) built planes. a prescribed sequence. No arguments.
 
Hold on. You asked me how they'd be distributed if the EU were to buy them. Now, you're talking about each country acting in their own best interests.

An EU procurement would (I presume) stipulate an assumed distribution at the outset (based, as I "supposed" on priority). It wouldn't be a free for all ........ of each country acting on their best interests.

That's the way we (in the EU and in with US) built planes. a prescribed sequence. No arguments.

Indeed and you said you supposed it would be done by need. Yet we’ve already seen that hasn’t been the case. So renders the assumption we would be better off in the EU to get them as a somewhat weak one. These are not normal times, we’re not taking about planes, we’re talking about time critical life saving equipment.
 
Indeed and you said you supposed it would be done by need. Yet we’ve already seen that hasn’t been the case. So renders the assumption we would be better off in the EU to get them as a somewhat weak one. These are not normal times, we’re not taking about planes, we’re talking about time critical life saving equipment.

How have we already seen that it won't be ? The bickering to which you referred was (presumably) to do with other stuff.

Agree an allocation up front, to be qualified/verified at time of delivery.

Us being outside, arguing our for our piece of the pie, against the whole of the EU but without any clout seems even weaker.
 
How have we already seen that it won't be ? The bickering to which you referred was (presumably) to do with other stuff.

Agree an allocation up front, to be qualified/verified at time of delivery.

Us being outside, arguing our for our piece of the pie, against the whole of the EU but without any clout seems even weaker.

PPE. Italy needed it, Germany/France/both can’t recall now refused to export it. When it comes to potential ventilators I suspect they won’t be allocated on a need basis. Clout is currency, we have plenty of it. And our connections and influence still run deep - despite what the twitter depressives may say.
 
PPE. Italy needed it, Germany/France/both can’t recall now refused to export it. When it comes to potential ventilators I suspect they won’t be allocated on a need basis. Clout is currency, we have plenty of it. And our connections and influence still run deep - despite what the twitter depressives may say.

Like I suggested earlier, you're mixing issues.

The ventilators would (presumably) be an EU purchase, allocated like I said.

It sounds like this one is (selfish) individual countries deciding not to cooperate with each other......... just like we'd be doing fighting against the rest of the EU.

What's our clout ? Our Sovereignty?!
 
Like I suggested earlier, you're mixing issues.

The ventilators would (presumably) be an EU purchase, allocated like I said.

It sounds like this one is (selfish) individual countries deciding not to cooperate with each other......... just like we'd be doing fighting against the rest of the EU.

What's our clout ? Our Sovereignty?!

Dyson have just announced that they are currently working on an order for 10,000 ventilators for the British Government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767
 
Excellent.

Design from scratch? I wonder what the leadtime is.

Quite quick apparently Ant if this exert from the report is correct -

It hopes to build the ventilators at scale from its UK base in Wiltshire - using aircraft hangars that were used to stuff parachutes in the second world war.

However, the blitz spirit the company is keen to channel will not produce immediate results.

It is thought that even if regulatory approval is forthcoming, it could take a couple of weeks to move from prototype to the device being made in significant scale.
 
Like I suggested earlier, you're mixing issues.

The ventilators would (presumably) be an EU purchase, allocated like I said.

It sounds like this one is (selfish) individual countries deciding not to cooperate with each other......... just like we'd be doing fighting against the rest of the EU.

What's our clout ? Our Sovereignty?!

The issue is the same. Who do you think pull the strings in the EU?
 
I'd read that.

Interesting that you've interpreted it as a positive.

To me, the keywords are - "will not produce", "even if" and "significant".

Good news ......for the future.
 
Can’t be right about Dyson. I’m certain the company has done nothing for the UK. Or so I was told on here recently.
Again, if you can't differentiate between the thoughts of an individual, and the commercial nowse of a company, then there's no point arguing.
 
If you can't differentiate between EU and national procurement, then there's no point arguing.

You’re not naive, so don’t act like it

Again, if you can't differentiate between the thoughts of an individual, and the commercial nowse of a company, then there's no point arguing.

Thoughts of an individual? I’m sure you mean technical nowse, it’s call to arms, not a commercial opportunity to be exploited. He was personally asked by the PM to help save lives and is trying to doing so. Perhaps those that wish to denigrate the efforts should hope that neither they nor their family ever have to use one of them.
 
You’re not naive, so don’t act like it.

I don't understand. Where's my naivety? Nations procure some commodities directly, and some through joint agreement. Your anecdote referenced one type .... yet your post @ #475 referenced the other.

Thoughts of an individual? I’m sure you mean technical nowse, it’s call to arms, not a commercial opportunity to be exploited. He was personally asked by the PM to help save lives and is trying to doing so. Perhaps those that wish to denigrate the efforts should hope that neither they nor their family ever have to use one of them.

A view of Dyson - and his moving of Dyson HQ to Singapore, together with his thoughts on the EU - has nowt to do with the company taking on board a commercial opportunity ....... regardless of source or reason.

Who's denigrating anyone? Get off your high horse.
 
A view of Dyson - and his moving of Dyson HQ to Singapore, together with his thoughts on the EU - has nowt to do with the company taking on board a commercial opportunity ....... regardless of source or reason.

Who's denigrating anyone? Get off your high horse.

Yet no acknowledgement of the Dyson foundation, the Dyson Institute of Technology and Engineering for example. For once put aside your angst over Brexit and show gratitude that a UK company has the skill set and means to help in these unprecedented times.


I don't understand. Where's my naivety? Nations procure some commodities directly, and some through joint agreement. Your anecdote referenced one type .... yet your post @ #475 referenced the other.

There is no joint agreement. It’s the EU trying to procure them and we all know which of those countries will be first in line to get them. As I said, you’re not naive, so stop acting like it.
 
Yet no acknowledgement of the Dyson foundation, the Dyson Institute of Technology and Engineering for example. For once put aside your angst over Brexit and show gratitude that a UK company has the skill set and means to help in these unprecedented times.

What an odd comment. Never once have I criticised Dyson for not being (as I presume you're holding him out to be) philanthropic. I've merely that he was a) seeking to avoid paying UK taxes, and b) thought were were better outside the EU ..... which I don't.

There is no joint agreement. It’s the EU trying to procure them and we all know which of those countries will be first in line to get them. As I said, you’re not naive, so stop acting like it.

So, if it's the "EU" trying to procure them, why do you think the countries of the EU would roll over and have their belly tickled. After all, Germany need them least of anyone.

I love how you accuse me of being naive just for not agreeing with you.
 
What an odd comment. Never once have I criticised Dyson for not being (as I presume you're holding him out to be) philanthropic. I've merely that he was a) seeking to avoid paying UK taxes, and b) thought were were better outside the EU ..... which I don't.

Yet he does believe we’re better off and it seems it’s inhibiting you from affording his company credit for stepping up to the plate in these desperate times.

So, if it's the "EU" trying to procure them, why do you think the countries of the EU would roll over and have their belly tickled. After all, Germany need them least of anyone.

I love how you accuse me of being naive just for not agreeing with you.

They don’t have a choice given the money they receive. Which you obviously know, hence my comment.
 
Yet he does believe we’re better off and it seems it’s inhibiting you from affording his company credit for stepping up to the plate in these desperate times. .

MiW. Mate. They're different issues. I haven't negatively commented on his company. At all.

They don’t have a choice given the money they receive. Which you obviously know, hence my comment.

We're not going to agree, so lets leave it there.

You still didn't answer my question though re UK being behind the EU (if it were the same Supplier). Obviously, if Dyson come up trumps (within a few weeks), then great ......... but they might not.