Hampton
Vital Football Hero
Just checked this out - cost Bristol £5.3m so that's equal to Kieffer Moore and half of Jamal Lowe.
I know where i would have invested and it wouldn't be on unproven championship level players !
Bristol City (H)
- Thread starter Arthur_Itis
- Start date
I know where i would have invested and it wouldn't be on unproven championship level players !
SwindonLatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
Thought we paid £2.5m for Moore and about the same for Lowe? Bristol paid that fee a couple of years ago I think which was big money back then. A player like that now would probably cost £8-£10m, plus wages. It’s the wages that is the killer because then you’ve got someone on loads more than everyone else and then every other bugger on our books, plus prospective players, will want more cash too
truelatic4eva
Vital 1st Team Regular
Leafy?......it's Worsley Hall with cockneys ffs.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
I have deliberately left it 24 hours before I made comment on the game. I was shell shocked last night on the drive home and couldn't believe we hadn't got anything out of the game.
Although reading the comments on here I was obviously at the wrong ground.
70% possession,
17 shots to 6,
7on target to 3,
611 passes to 269
We dominated the game from beginning to end, and yet, we could not score.
Once again I am reading that we were outfoxed, allowed to play in the areas in front of their defence and picked off by better tactics. Rubbish.
Their manager was going frantic on the sidelines at the amount of possession we were getting, he was the one that blinked first and made the changes, not because they wanted us to have possession, but because we were running them ragged and giving them no possession.
For all those that say we weren't creating chances, look at the shots taken stat, almost half on target. They were chances created. Our downfall is simply having no one capable of converting the chances.
At least six of those shots on target were hit straight at the keeper with little or no venom. I cant remember the last time I saw a keeper catch as many shots, modern keepers parry shots, which leads me to believe that they were not hit with enough power to trouble him.
We were dominant up until that final pass and that is where the system fails. Without a target man in the box we are relying on playing the ball in at a low trajectory, it is no use sending the ball in high because the taller defenders will eat those crosses all day long. If we continue to play with Windass up front then we have to move the ball forward faster and play it in quicker to allow him to get on the shoulder of the defender and use his pace to win the ball in a straight foot race. We also need to get players from midfield up to support Windass when he wins the ball and give him the option to pass or shoot. Yesterday he won a couple of decent through balls but then had to cut back to find support or try to make room for a shot giving the defender the opportunity to get back at him.
The partnership with Naismith and Kipre looks to be paying off, Kipre looks more solid and less prone to mistakes and shows good potential, at 23 he still has time to develop and he is now stepping forward and bringing the ball out from the back as he seems to have the confidence that Naismith will cover him. Naismith proved yesterday that he has the composure and strength to deal with a strong centre forward and put in yet another decent performance leading me to believe that by accident we may have found a potential gem.
Morsy and Evans produced a solid platform for the midfield to build on, and although some are critical of Morsy's performance I thought he broke up play effectively and did nothing to give rise to the criticism.
There are comments about Howells being played on the left wing, however from my viewpoint the three attacking midfielders were fluid and moved around throughout the game. Howells and Williams linking up well on a number of occasions. Lowe was poor, and I think should be benched.
As I said, I must have been at the wrong ground because I watched a team dominate an opponent to the point that they were chasing shadows until their manager altered his system. I saw a team that was toothless in attack but showed enough promise for me to believe that if they can get someone to stick away the chances we could lift ourselves into a safe position. I saw promise from Howells, a glimpse of class from Naismith and a team that are playing football,not hoofball and are lacking one key component.
I know that a lot of you will disagree, partly due to the fact that we all see things differently in games and partly because some don't want to see the positive at present, but apart from the result I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
Fire away!!!!!
Although reading the comments on here I was obviously at the wrong ground.
70% possession,
17 shots to 6,
7on target to 3,
611 passes to 269
We dominated the game from beginning to end, and yet, we could not score.
Once again I am reading that we were outfoxed, allowed to play in the areas in front of their defence and picked off by better tactics. Rubbish.
Their manager was going frantic on the sidelines at the amount of possession we were getting, he was the one that blinked first and made the changes, not because they wanted us to have possession, but because we were running them ragged and giving them no possession.
For all those that say we weren't creating chances, look at the shots taken stat, almost half on target. They were chances created. Our downfall is simply having no one capable of converting the chances.
At least six of those shots on target were hit straight at the keeper with little or no venom. I cant remember the last time I saw a keeper catch as many shots, modern keepers parry shots, which leads me to believe that they were not hit with enough power to trouble him.
We were dominant up until that final pass and that is where the system fails. Without a target man in the box we are relying on playing the ball in at a low trajectory, it is no use sending the ball in high because the taller defenders will eat those crosses all day long. If we continue to play with Windass up front then we have to move the ball forward faster and play it in quicker to allow him to get on the shoulder of the defender and use his pace to win the ball in a straight foot race. We also need to get players from midfield up to support Windass when he wins the ball and give him the option to pass or shoot. Yesterday he won a couple of decent through balls but then had to cut back to find support or try to make room for a shot giving the defender the opportunity to get back at him.
The partnership with Naismith and Kipre looks to be paying off, Kipre looks more solid and less prone to mistakes and shows good potential, at 23 he still has time to develop and he is now stepping forward and bringing the ball out from the back as he seems to have the confidence that Naismith will cover him. Naismith proved yesterday that he has the composure and strength to deal with a strong centre forward and put in yet another decent performance leading me to believe that by accident we may have found a potential gem.
Morsy and Evans produced a solid platform for the midfield to build on, and although some are critical of Morsy's performance I thought he broke up play effectively and did nothing to give rise to the criticism.
There are comments about Howells being played on the left wing, however from my viewpoint the three attacking midfielders were fluid and moved around throughout the game. Howells and Williams linking up well on a number of occasions. Lowe was poor, and I think should be benched.
As I said, I must have been at the wrong ground because I watched a team dominate an opponent to the point that they were chasing shadows until their manager altered his system. I saw a team that was toothless in attack but showed enough promise for me to believe that if they can get someone to stick away the chances we could lift ourselves into a safe position. I saw promise from Howells, a glimpse of class from Naismith and a team that are playing football,not hoofball and are lacking one key component.
I know that a lot of you will disagree, partly due to the fact that we all see things differently in games and partly because some don't want to see the positive at present, but apart from the result I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
Fire away!!!!!
walgarthjohn
Vital 1st Team Regular
Played with ten men for most of the game why was Lowe not taken off yes we huffed and puffed but goals win games and simple fact is we don’t have a goal scorer on the books ,,, Can’t score Can’t defend only one outcome. Relegation
Ihaventaclue
Vital Youth Team
True Beleiver ..... I'm in total agreement with you. I was saying to friends that if you were a neutral / impartial you'd have seen an entertaining game of football with one team definately dominating with some nice touches and good efforts.
OnLoanfromEnfield
Vital 1st Team Regular
If you lose a game 0-2 at home .... yes indeedy, the players and coaching staff were outfoxed.
The high percentage passing game coupled with players who:
Lack the skills necessary to use their other foot when it matters
= very little scoring output.
Over the course of the season the amount of players (on this current team) who appear to be unable to use two feet .... is poor.
Decent scoring chances are being wasted in this season long goal drought.
Josh Windass .... prime example. Out left, shifts his body to accommodate his right foot (rather than using his left) .... Championship defenders and goalie say 'thank you very much'.
Nathan Byrne ... prime example. Some decent attacking runs cuts inside, fluffs the chance or passes left to avoid using his left.
Either too scared too use his or has the left foot equivalent of a 14 year old right footer.
On another thread, someone asks if Wigan players read this forum. I hope Lee Evans does.
How many times does he expect to hoodwink referees with his "Ive been tackled., my leg is shattered and I am going to roll around on the floor " routine ?
I watched him try it yesterday during the second half and it was frankly embarrassing.
On a side note ... interest perked for the first 25 minutes ... rest of the game was a snooze fest. There is enjoyable possession based football and Wigan possession based football.
The high percentage passing game coupled with players who:
Lack the skills necessary to use their other foot when it matters
= very little scoring output.
Over the course of the season the amount of players (on this current team) who appear to be unable to use two feet .... is poor.
Decent scoring chances are being wasted in this season long goal drought.
Josh Windass .... prime example. Out left, shifts his body to accommodate his right foot (rather than using his left) .... Championship defenders and goalie say 'thank you very much'.
Nathan Byrne ... prime example. Some decent attacking runs cuts inside, fluffs the chance or passes left to avoid using his left.
Either too scared too use his or has the left foot equivalent of a 14 year old right footer.
On another thread, someone asks if Wigan players read this forum. I hope Lee Evans does.
How many times does he expect to hoodwink referees with his "Ive been tackled., my leg is shattered and I am going to roll around on the floor " routine ?
I watched him try it yesterday during the second half and it was frankly embarrassing.
On a side note ... interest perked for the first 25 minutes ... rest of the game was a snooze fest. There is enjoyable possession based football and Wigan possession based football.
jocklatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
Ok, I'll fire away TB.....you say we all see the game differently then in one of your paragraphs you say...
.If we continue to play with Windass up front then we have to move the ball forward faster and play it in quicker to allow him to get on the shoulder of the defender and use his pace to win the ball in a straight foot race. We also need to get players from midfield up to support Windass when he wins the ball and give him the option to pass or shoot. Yesterday he won a couple of decent through balls but then had to cut back to find support or try to make room for a shot giving the defender the opportunity to get back at him. It's what a fair few on here have been saying in different ways for ages on here & is in effect saying we are not good enough, quick enough or decisive enough. Possibly due to our set up, PC's tactics or certain players not up to this level. So despite all the stats we still didn't win, the possession stats didn't say that majority of that possession was non threatening & sideways footy or that the shots on target stats that ours were powder puff shots certainly not troubling their keeper. IMO we lack speed in going forward, a decent cutting edge & a player on the pitch who can score.....surely Moore, Garner or Geldhart cud do that job, again imo!!
As u say Lowe was poor, very poor & in 2nd half was a passenger, surely if we see that how come PC doesn't?? With PC staying at the helm I feel we will carry on as we are getting the odd win but sadly dished up with some dire performances - would love to be proved wrong but won't hold my breath.....
Fire away back TB.....
You are my sunshine
Vital Reserves Team
I certainly didn't think we played badly yesterday.We are playing ok but are really lacking a cutting edge in the final third.IMO Cook needs to get a natural striker to lead the line in Garner or Moore and have Joffy,Dowell and Windass around him with Pilks also in contention.I've not written Lowe off but he needs to be taken out of the team.
If Cook just tweaks what is currently happening in the final third and gets those players on the pitch together then IMO we still have a fighting chance as it stands as we are only 2 points from safety.
I believe having those players all on the pitch will give us the best chance of getting the goals we need which has been our problem all season.
The GKs,back 4 and CMs are doing ok and give us a good base but in the final third is what is letting us down most games in terms of our ability to put the ball in the back of the bloody net.It's so frustrating at the moment but I haven't yet given up hope on what is now a very difficult task of staying up,not with 19 games still to go.But Cook needs to change it in the final third if we are to have a chance before it's too late.
If Cook just tweaks what is currently happening in the final third and gets those players on the pitch together then IMO we still have a fighting chance as it stands as we are only 2 points from safety.
I believe having those players all on the pitch will give us the best chance of getting the goals we need which has been our problem all season.
The GKs,back 4 and CMs are doing ok and give us a good base but in the final third is what is letting us down most games in terms of our ability to put the ball in the back of the bloody net.It's so frustrating at the moment but I haven't yet given up hope on what is now a very difficult task of staying up,not with 19 games still to go.But Cook needs to change it in the final third if we are to have a chance before it's too late.
mightytics
Vital Reserves Team
Keep ball for 76 mins how boring , we should all be allowed into watch training then we don`t need to bother going the games .
Bristol city sat behind the ball knowing there would be chances in the last 15 mins and boom we didn`t disappoint.
I am like most now and am getting used to it , there is talk of Rhodes or Sharp REALLY !!
People we DO NOT create chances you could bring Messi in and he would not score a single goal .
We have to accept we are going down unless the manager is removed
Bristol city sat behind the ball knowing there would be chances in the last 15 mins and boom we didn`t disappoint.
I am like most now and am getting used to it , there is talk of Rhodes or Sharp REALLY !!
People we DO NOT create chances you could bring Messi in and he would not score a single goal .
We have to accept we are going down unless the manager is removed
daleks.at.the.monaco
Vital 1st Team Regular
This is what commentary on BBC Bristol also reported
BBC Bristol obviously don’t watch us very often.
There was never the slightest chance we would score. Little of note created. The only times we ever looked like opening them up was when Naismith took it upon himself to bring it out of deference. And Robinson’s regular runs.
Bristol City were devoid of confidence and fire but still put the ball in the net three times. Plus created another 2-3 decent chances in the first half.
daleks.at.the.monaco
Vital 1st Team Regular
Fair point, distance and work keeps me away from going + the elephant in the room of the entertainment value (7-8 hours of driving does not count as entertainment)
They mentioned Robinson being good, Lee Johnson going mad on touchline
Johnson twisted first with the subs (always a sign that things are not going well for a team) he does seem to be under pressure at the club (local media reports)
Obviously Johnson is a better manager (tactically) to change the team and win
The goals appeared to be break away, against the run of play?
The run of play was us making 15-20 passes and it breaking down each time we got into the final third. No by-line crosses, no through balls, no speculative shots.
Bristol City where on course for a comfortable draw. They made the changes to catch us on the break and win the game. I read online that’s something like 16 goals conceded in the final 15 minutes of games. Most of those goals costing us points.
Why we don’t change it around and start with Gelhardt & Garner I’ll never know.
SwindonLatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
You would think bringing Windass on as a sub where he could use his pace against tired defenders would be a better tactic
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GlasgowLatic
Vital Reserves Team
I think once they started knocking it long their big striker showed why Kal isn't a centre back.
We need players in natural positions. Hopefully January isn't like out usual in championship where we have a massive turnaround. A new manager could give us a decent chance of staying up but that's not going to happen.
We need players in natural positions. Hopefully January isn't like out usual in championship where we have a massive turnaround. A new manager could give us a decent chance of staying up but that's not going to happen.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
Ok, I'll fire away TB.....you say we all see the game differently then in one of your paragraphs you say...
.If we continue to play with Windass up front then we have to move the ball forward faster and play it in quicker to allow him to get on the shoulder of the defender and use his pace to win the ball in a straight foot race. We also need to get players from midfield up to support Windass when he wins the ball and give him the option to pass or shoot. Yesterday he won a couple of decent through balls but then had to cut back to find support or try to make room for a shot giving the defender the opportunity to get back at him. It's what a fair few on here have been saying in different ways for ages on here & is in effect saying we are not good enough, quick enough or decisive enough. Possibly due to our set up, PC's tactics or certain players not up to this level. So despite all the stats we still didn't win, the possession stats didn't say that majority of that possession was non threatening & sideways footy or that the shots on target stats that ours were powder puff shots certainly not troubling their keeper. IMO we lack speed in going forward, a decent cutting edge & a player on the pitch who can score.....surely Moore, Garner or Geldhart cud do that job, again imo!!
As u say Lowe was poor, very poor & in 2nd half was a passenger, surely if we see that how come PC doesn't?? With PC staying at the helm I feel we will carry on as we are getting the odd win but sadly dished up with some dire performances - would love to be proved wrong but won't hold my breath.....
Fire away back TB.....
I tend to agree with almost all of that Jock, where I disagree is with the statement that we didn't trouble their keeper. 17 shots, 7 of which were on target and forgive me if my memory fails on this but 6 straight at him.
My point is very straight forward, we are one piece short in the jigsaw, someone who can put away the chances.
We may already have him in Moore, Garner or Gelhardt, or if not we need to bring someone in, but despite what anyone says the performance on Saturday was decent up to the point.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
Total B******S.
Once again 17 shots, 7 on target, how the hell can you say that we are not creating chances.
Open your eyes and take the blinkers off, this is just another post from the Cook out brigade who just want to see the team failing and cant be bothered to see any positives from the game. There are none so blind as those that will not see.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
I totally agree with the statement that we broke down when we got to the final third.
I disagree with you that Bristol looked comfortable though.
We had them chasing shadows for the first thirty minutes or so and forced their manager to make the changes, not to catch us on the break, as you say, but to shore up a defence that was creaking. If the changes had come in the last twenty or so minutes then I could have seen your point, but a half time substitute says to me that the manager is panicking and desperate to take the pressure off his beleaguered back line.
I also agree with you that Gelhardt should be in the starting line up. He should certainly be ahead of Lowe, Massey and Jacobs in the pecking order.
jocklatic
Vital 1st Team Regular
As you said above re Moore, Garner or Geldhart - we probably have a decent attacking intent if played in the right combination, sadly unless PC stumbles across this then it isn't going to happen imo. Saturday was ok but only ok & up until we got into the final third. Our break out play is so slow & laboured that it's painful to watch & easy for opposing sides to get their defence sorted.
