Brexit and all that shite ....

[moonay]

........ In the leaflet it says we will renegotiate our stance, it’s there it’s black and white.

Richy, I'm on your side mate........ But the leaflet is the Government's..... Not Leave's.

That said, I agree Leave did talk about deals, and never for a second suggested we'd be leaving whilst having to make emergency arrangements.

 

[Hampton]

Richy, I'm on your side mate........ But the leaflet is the Government's..... Not Leave's.

That said, I agree Leave did talk about deals, and never for a second suggested we'd be leaving whilst having to make emergency arrangements.

This thread's like crack cocaine - really want to get off but unable to - no one is changing their mind ever ! so let's agree to disagree, stop posting and talk about tics instead ? ?

 

[richymac]

This thread's like crack cocaine - really want to get off but unable to - no one is changing their mind ever ! so let's agree to disagree, stop posting and talk about tics instead ? ?

Yeah sorry lads, I can go all day! We are never gonna agree are we?

 

[moonay]

This thread's like crack cocaine - really want to get off but unable to - no one is changing their mind ever ! ...............................

If only that were true though Hampton. Quite a few in Johnson's government - including himself - have changed their minds. Some of them, more than once.

The fact that this current Tory leadership are willing to fracture the Union in order to achieve our withdrawal from the EU is to be honest despicable.

 

[Hampton]

If only that were true though Hampton. Quite a few in Johnson's government - including himself - have changed their minds. Some of them, more than once.

The fact that this current Tory leadership are willing to fracture the Union in order to achieve our withdrawal from the EU is to be honest despicable.

Aaaaaargh - see what you've made me do now Moonay......!
As i said earlier only the ERG, BP, DUP aligned to the majority ref result and LDs, SNs (undemocratically) have held their initial positions.
Both the remainer Tories and the "in, out, shake it all about - now what's our position today" Labour party have been playing short term politics for their own benefit.
The flip flopping is all around the political spectrum not just at Johnsons door but as much at Jezzas.
For the sake of balance and whilst i agree fully with the break the union point, the Labour party position of completely ignoring the wishes of their traditional northern heartlands is just as despicable.
I fully believe an electoral reckoning is coming to both parties at the next GE and rightly so.

 

[Hampton]

If only that were true though Hampton. Quite a few in Johnson's government - including himself - have changed their minds. Some of them, more than once.

The fact that this current Tory leadership are willing to fracture the Union in order to achieve our withdrawal from the EU is to be honest despicable.

In terms of never changing their minds i was referring to posters on the board - not sure how many MPs that includes ?

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

Aaaaaargh - see what you've made me do now Moonay......!
As i said earlier only the ERG, BP, DUP aligned to the majority ref result and LDs, SNs (undemocratically) have held their initial positions.
Both the remainer Tories and the "in, out, shake it all about - now what's our position today" Labour party have been playing short term politics for their own benefit.
The flip flopping is all around the political spectrum not just at Johnsons door but as much at Jezzas.
For the sake of balance and whilst i agree fully with the break the union point, the Labour party position of completely ignoring the wishes of their traditional northern heartlands is just as despicable.
I fully believe an electoral reckoning is coming to both parties at the next GE and rightly so.

You say SN are undemocratic. I understood that Scotland voted to remain.
Are they undemocratic or are they representing their nation.

Its all bobbins to quote Frank Sidebottom.
Otherwise I generally agree with the above.

You do agree with a representative democracy I hope

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

Hampton
You are a smart chap
You work in the state sector at a high level

So what do you know about the EU that convinces you that we need to leave.
Genuine question, also I commit to making no counter argument to your comments.

 

[Hampton]

Hampton
You are a smart chap
You work in the state sector at a high level

So what do you know about the EU that convinces you that we need to leave.
Genuine question, also I commit to making no counter argument to your comments.

Daleks - Thanks however i would class myself more as worldly experienced rather than smart having been round the block way too many times....!
As i posted way back in this thread and coming at it from a wider rather than from a personal perspective and in no particular order my key reasons for wishing to leave :-
Health tourism - though a wider than just an EU issue
Encouraged transfer of UK manufacturing, sponsored by the EU, primarily to the eastern EU states and more recently via the trade deal with Japan (not sure why they haven't offered the UK the same terms ?) supported with our EU contributions in part.
The massive waste of money of the regular commission Brussels to Strasbourg switching (simply pandering to France at a cost to all)
CAP - why we ever signed up to this beggars belief it is for the benefit of small French farmers in support of their inefficiencies.
The creep of an EU army when NATO is the de facto continent stability organisation and the failure of every EU country to pay fair share as agreed by treaty except UK, Estonia and bizarrely Greece (if they can afford it why not Germany / France ?)
The building of vanity projects "funded by the EU" e.g. Portugals shiny new motorway network (whilst youth unemployment is 50%), Krakows new airport (whilst folk live in tin roof shacks with no utilities just adjacent) and closer to home Chorley's new IT business hub (built on greenbelt land when brownfield sites are available 1/2 mile away) these are unnecessary whilst many "citizens" are living in unemployed poverty in bankrupt countries mainly thanks to the impact of an "aligned" Euro currency which may as well be renamed "the new DeutschMark".
That Frau Merkle's "welcomed in" unvetted mass immigrants will qualify for full EU passports in 2 years
The environmental hypocrisy of the EU criticising and doubting the UKs carbon neutral plan whilst the majority of the continent's highest polluting power stations are in Poland (which is understandable) and Germany (which is outrageous) which the EU are doing nothing about.
Other than that I'm a big fan !

From a personal pov any travel / working restrictions will hurt me individually as would an increase in relative costs driven by short to mid-term forex impacts however on balance I believe thosehardships are an acceptable price to pay to disengage from all of the above.

Very very finally from me on this - until Scotland leaves the union it is a constituent part of the UK and the vote was a total UK one irrespective of geography within the wider country. If Scotland had decided or decides in the future to leave the UK then fair enough if they wish to rejoin the EU.

 

[Will_Shahane]

A question to the thread; do you think that Boris Johnson’s accession will speed up our departure from the European Union? Or do you think that this period of limbo and uncertainty will continue indefinitely?

 

[moonay]

Will, I have two views on this. I'm not sure which one persuades me most.
Either, Johnson has shown that he is capable of plotting to circumvent parliament in order to push through leaving on 31/10 ,..... or........ he's that unpredictable, changeable and duplicitous that even he doesn't know what he's going to do tomorrow.

Cummings seems to be the one at the wheel. Who voted for him then?

As an aside, this made me smile....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1160535003899531264

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

As an aside, this made me smile....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1160535003899531264

I saw Rayner's analogy and was tempted to add it to the debate on here

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

Hampton
You are a smart chap
You work in the state sector at a high level

So what do you know about the EU that convinces you that we need to leave.
Genuine question, also I commit to making no counter argument to your comments.

Hampton
Thanks can see the logic in many of these, me I'm more of a Keynesean. Also I consider these examples as similar to UK regional policy discrepancies but on a much larger scale.
I trust you do not think I have broken my comment commitment.

 

[bickymon]

Once we leave EU the inevitable will happen the union will fracture scotland first then NI
But my gut feeling says NI could be the surprise and rejoin ireland after what could be some nasty infighting before the scotts leave
The good thing about the scots leaving means that the door could be open then for many people in england who will leave in their thousand likes of the common man who will leave the hardship and tyranny rule of future tory governments the likes of which have not been seen since 1800s just hope scotland would be able to cope with such a large scale migration

 

[hindleymonwafc]

The good thing about the scots leaving means that the door could be open then for many people in england who will leave in their thousand governments the likes of which have not been seen since 1800s just hope scotland would be able to cope with such a large scale migration

1800 eh ?... round about when you last worked. When you leave what a prize acquisition you'll be to the newly independent Scotland. Take the other lazy bastards out the Last Orders when you go.

 

[richymac]

Once we leave EU the inevitable will happen the union will fracture scotland first then NI
But my gut feeling says NI could be the surprise and rejoin ireland after what could be some nasty infighting before the scotts leave
The good thing about the scots leaving means that the door could be open then for many people in england who will leave in their thousand likes of the common man who will leave the hardship and tyranny rule of future tory governments the likes of which have not been seen since 1800s just hope scotland would be able to cope with such a large scale migration

Can't wait to get my Scottish passport and get away from the Tories haha

 

[jocklatic]

Once we leave EU the inevitable will happen the union will fracture scotland first then NI
But my gut feeling says NI could be the surprise and rejoin ireland after what could be some nasty infighting before the scotts leave
The good thing about the scots leaving means that the door could be open then for many people in england who will leave in their thousand likes of the common man who will leave the hardship and tyranny rule of future tory governments the likes of which have not been seen since 1800s just hope scotland would be able to cope with such a large scale migration

Project fear quote number 75+ there Bicymon......nobody knows what will happen re brexit - will we leave / won't we leave... high unemployment / low unemployment....££££millions of pounds gain to the NHS / £££millions of pounds lost to NHS ......thousands of jobs loses / thousands of job gains - nobody knows what will happen, the only certainty in all of this is those mega rich MP's will still be rich n still claiming ott expenses imo

 

[Made in Wigan]

Can't wait to get my Scottish passport and get away from the Tories haha

Why wait, nowt stopping you moving there now Richy. I’m sure wee jimmy and her nationalist party will welcome you with open arms.

 

[Made in Wigan]

The end game in regards Brexit is near. Those intent on subverting democracy are rapidly running out of time and ideas. Even a no confidence vote in the government means the PM can set the date of the next election, with the Queens blessing and that will be post leaving date. The EU are still insistent the backstop won’t change, though I personally believe they will. We leave in about 12 weeks, deal or no deal, so it’s over to the EU if they want a say in how we wave goodbye.

 

[moonay]

......... The EU are still insistent the backstop won’t change, though I personally believe they will. We leave in about 12 weeks, deal or no deal, so it’s over to the EU if they want a say in how we wave goodbye.

I hope you're right on the first point. Apparently, Johnson has agreed to have talks with Varadkar.

As for "it's over to the EU" though .......
- we tell them what we want ................... we get most of it
- we tell them our redlines ....................... they go with them
- we insist on a backstop ........................... they include it
- we get to a deal .......................................... they (27) pass it, (but we - UK - don't)
- we ask for two extensions ........................ they grant them

Yet, somehow, "it's over to the EU".

Bastards.