Bit of Brexit info required.

[in_the_top_one]

#huge youth unemployment throughout the mediterranean

You really are an apologist for decline and mediocrity.

I see Uk unemployment fell again. Oh dear. Another awful nail in the coffin of project fear!! You must be devestated

I've said previously that the low unemployment here is a good thing. Still not sure what your point is. Obviously EU membership is not an obstacle for good unemployment figures. We haven't left yet, but I presume you are still banging on about George Osborne.


I know you're allergic to objective research but it is disingenuous to trumpet unemployment falling here and in the very same post claim that the EU is at fault for unemployment around the Med. Unemployment is reducing in those states. Is that a sign they are getting back on their feet? Or a nail in some coffin, or other?

Here is Greece, Italy and Spain's youth unemployment rates over the last five years. (All sloping downwards from a peak following the global financial crash for which they were not well enough prepared - who was?)




This is at least the second time I have had to point this out to you but you don't want to take on board factual information. instead you grunt, "Youth unemployment is high in some EU states so therefore EU=bad."

 

[Lienking]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...up-that-want-to-repatriate-black-Britons.html

I admit this isn't the AfD, but he shared their speech on twitter then claimed it wasn't an endorsement. How naiive to believe him.

He shared who's speech? I don't pretend to know who the Afd are, but there is NOTHING racist in that speech if youv are still on about the AfD.

Anyhow there are 17.4 million people who voted to leave. The best argument you seem to be able to come up with against leaving is to call three or four of them fascists !

 

[Lienking]

I've said previously that the low unemployment here is a good thing. Still not sure what your point is. Obviously EU membership is not an obstacle for good unemployment figures. We haven't left yet, but I presume you are still banging on about George Osborne.


I know you're allergic to objective research but it is disingenuous to trumpet unemployment falling here and in the very same post claim that the EU is at fault for unemployment around the Med. Unemployment is reducing in those states. Is that a sign they are getting back on their feet? Or a nail in some coffin, or other?

Here is Greece, Italy and Spain's youth unemployment rates over the last five years. (All sloping downwards from a peak following the global financial crash for which they were not well enough prepared - who was?)

View attachment 32479


This is at least the second time I have had to point this out to you but you don't want to take on board factual information. instead you grunt, "Youth unemployment is high in some EU states so therefore EU=bad."

The EU has got Greek youth unemployment down to 40%, and you think that's a good thing!

 

[in_the_top_one]

He shared who's speech? I don't pretend to know who the Afd are, but there is NOTHING racist in that speech if youv are still on about the AfD.

You may not know who the AfD are but he most certainly does. They are not nice.

Anyhow there are 17.4 million people who voted to leave. The best argument you seem to be able to come up with against leaving is to call three or four of them fascists !

Hardly! I think the debate has been a bit more wide ranging than that! I've given tonnes of positive reasons to stay. In contrast, there are none to leave.

 

[in_the_top_one]

The EU has got Greek youth unemployment down to 40%, and you think that's a good thing!

No, I said it was going in the right direction in direct response to Toms saying that our own unemployment rate was falling.
They're all falling. It isn't a nail in project fear.
Project fear is "Central army, centralized tax rates, EU finance minister, centralized economy, centralized debts", any of which we could veto if we so wanted. But don't take my word for it, take Jacob Rees Mogg's!

 

[toms]

The EU has got Greek youth unemployment down to 40%, and you think that's a good thing!

 

[in_the_top_one]

The thing is that you guys completely miss the point.
Why are unemployment rates in those nations solely attributable to the evil EU? And if they are, is ours? You aren't comparing apples with apples. It is simplistic and wrong.

 

[Bremen Tree]

Bremen do you actually know what being far right is. I’d love you to properly define without some quite unintelligent throwaway comment about me... go on have a go.

I'll happily comply when you define what constitutes a loony lefty.

Over to you.

 

[Bremen Tree]

He shared who's speech? I don't pretend to know who the Afd are, but there is NOTHING racist in that speech if youv are still on about the AfD.

Anyhow there are 17.4 million people who voted to leave. The best argument you seem to be able to come up with against leaving is to call three or four of them fascists !

Then maybe you should investigate who they really are before aligning with some of their rhetoric....

How about this for a few starter arguments:

No coherent plan
No trade deals in place
An approx. 10yr down turn in the UK GDP.
No leg to stand on when negotiating any deals
No agreement between leaver campaigners as to what leave actually means

 

[in_the_top_one]

Accusations of people being a fascist is pretty much a cliche of left wing student politics. However, we were talking about fascism when I referred to Trump, so let's use wikipedia as a starting point definition. I will presume we can agree that fascists are on the far right of politics. I'll write when I think it describes Trump.

"
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition , and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6]
"

A tick in every box. Fascist.

 

[Lienking]

Accusations of people being a fascist is pretty much a cliche of left wing student politics. However, we were talking about fascism when I referred to Trump, so let's use wikipedia as a starting point definition. I will presume we can agree that fascists are on the far right of politics. I'll write when I think it describes Trump.

"
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition , and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6]
"

A tick in every box. Fascist.

Think you've just described the EU !

 

[in_the_top_one]

Think you've just described the EU !

Good one!

This is a very strong contender for the most ridiculous post on this whole thread.

 

[Lienking]

Good one!

This is a very strong contender for the most ridiculous post on this whole thread.

Radical Yes
Right wing Maybe not
Authoritarian Definitely
Ultranationalism Ridiculous belief in the EU superstate
Dictatorial power Definitely
Forcible suppression of opposition Definitely (though through economic force, replacing democratically elected leaders through economic means)
Regimentation of economies and society (tax, armies, courts, punishment if you try to leave etc)

Really spot on. Couldn't have described the EU better myself!

 

[toms]

No, I said it was going in the right direction in direct response to Toms saying that our own unemployment rate was falling.
They're all falling. It isn't a nail in project fear.
Project fear is "Central army, centralized tax rates, EU finance minister, centralized economy, centralized debts", any of which we could veto if we so wanted. But don't take my word for it, take Jacob Rees Mogg's!

Accusations of people being a fascist is pretty much a cliche of left wing student politics. However, we were talking about fascism when I referred to Trump, so let's use wikipedia as a starting point definition. I will presume we can agree that fascists are on the far right of politics. I'll write when I think it describes Trump.

"
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition , and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6]
"

A tick in every box. Fascist.

Well not every one

5 I would also query... he is pretty much a free market guy who loves debt

 

[toms]

Radical Yes
Right wing Maybe not
Authoritarian Definitely
Ultranationalism Ridiculous belief in the EU superstate
Dictatorial power Definitely
Forcible suppression of opposition Definitely (though through economic force, replacing democratically elected leaders through economic means)
Regimentation of economies and society (tax, armies, courts, punishment if you try to leave etc)

Really spot on. Couldn't have described the EU better myself!

Change right wing for left wing socialism and you are virtually there...there have also been some cracking communist/Maoist eu presidents in the past.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Radical Yes
- Yeah, ok.

Right wing Maybe not
- LOL.

Authoritarian Definitely
- LOL, no. Membership guarantees personal freedoms, rather than taking them away!

Ultranationalism Ridiculous belief in the EU superstate
- LOL, that isn't ultranationalism! The EU is a collection of sovereign nations working together. It is literally the complete opposite of nationalist. It does protect its member states, if that's what you mean? But that is absolutely not nationalism.

Dictatorial power Definitely
- LOL, no. Who is the dictator?! The European Parliament?

Forcible suppression of opposition Definitely (though through economic force, replacing democratically elected leaders through economic means)
- Who is 'the opposition' here?

Regimentation of economies and society (tax, armies, courts, punishment if you try to leave etc)
- LOL, no. What "punishment"? Not allowing all the benefits of members for non-members? It isn't regimentation if it isn't strict control over people's liberties.

Really spot on. Couldn't have described the EU better myself!

Agreed - you probably couldn't.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Change right wing for left wing socialism and you are virtually there...there have also been some cracking communist/Maoist eu presidents in the past.

No, he's wrong on almost every count.
You can justifiably argue that the EU is somewhat left wing at the moment. Why is that the case? Because that reflects the MEPs and the heads of state that make up the european parliament and the european council, respectively. I'm sure you are hoping for a big swing to the right at the next european elections. Since it has a fairer proportional representation system, you might get your wish. That would reflect the way the people voted. If it is left wing at the moment, that's how it should be. It is not immovable. If the people of europe vote for more right wing parties, the EU will become more right wing. That's democracy. We get to vote for a new set every five years. Same as here.

 

[toms]

No, he's wrong on almost every count.
You can justifiably argue that the EU is somewhat left wing at the moment. Why is that the case? Because that reflects the MEPs and the heads of state that make up the european parliament and the european council, respectively. I'm sure you are hoping for a big swing to the right at the next european elections. Since it has a fairer proportional representation system, you might get your wish. That would reflect the way the people voted. If it is left wing at the moment, that's how it should be. It is not immovable. If the people of europe vote for more right wing parties, the EU will become more right wing. That's democracy. We get to vote for a new set every five years. Same as here.

i Think this will be the first time I vote in European elections. And it will also be the last

 

[in_the_top_one]

i Think this will be the first time I vote in European elections. And it will also be the last

Maybe if you hadn't neglected your rights/responsibility/duty in the past, things might have been going along more to your liking?

I'm guessing you don't feel any guilt about that. Absolute joke to criticise or claim it isn't democratic when you aren't even voting in the elections.

 

[in_the_top_one]

By the way, if this will be the first time you are old enough to vote then obviously I take that last comment back.